Tactical mistake today?

[Questions]

The defensive subs Hughton made would probably be those that most managers have made. Putting Greer on would have sucked Burnley into our box and I'm not convinced that would have been that helpful either.

It really needed that 3rd goal and time and time again our attackers lacked that composure.

We have I think the best central midfield and best wingers in the league but we have no clinical strikers with Zamora out and no dominant talisman central defender to bully opponents, the route one mugging today was very similar to the Boro game here. This is a team with clear weaknesses that stop us being an auto promotion side alas.

Sucked Burnley in our box L.I.? That's all they had. Once Hughton had decided to hang on we should have broughtvGreer on. Poor management today Imo. Tho agree with your sentiments on the other bits.......this side lacks bottle when it matters and Hughton gives negative messages at times with his subs.

 

[BadFish]

The defensive subs Hughton made would probably be those that most managers have made. Putting Greer on would have sucked Burnley into our box and I'm not convinced that would have been that helpful either.

It really needed that 3rd goal and time and time again our attackers lacked that composure.

We have I think the best central midfield and best wingers in the league but we have no clinical strikers with Zamora out and no dominant talisman central defender to bully opponents, the route one mugging today was very similar to the Boro game here. This is a team with clear weaknesses that stop us being an auto promotion side alas.

It certainly does seem to be an areas of weakness for us, the trouble is that top strikers don't come cheap and are not readily available. It must be said we are doing incredibly well despite this weakness, who knows how this season will end up.

 

[BadFish]

True. But managers are paid to view the game and make the right calls. Maybe they won't get it right all of the time, but they should get it right more often than not. This defensive substitution thing often backfires.

I agree, but it seems to me that there must be something in it as so many managers seem to do it. yesterday was a classic case of attack being the best form of defence as our attacking game plan was working for us and negating their playing it up to the big man tactics. Sitting back just gave them more opportunities to execute their game plan.

 

[Peter Grummit]

True. But managers are paid to view the game and make the right calls. Maybe they won't get it right all of the time, but they should get it right more often than not. This defensive substitution thing often backfires.

Evidence?

Yesterday, we were calling for Greer to match up Barnes, and I agree that Sidwell was a mistake (but don't forget he did clear off (sic) the line(!)) This needs to be balanced against Hughton's subs record across a long season. Yesterday was the first time at home we have taken the lead and not gone on to win the game. 11 previous victories. So the idea that shutting up shop has cost us dearly (certainly at home) is false.

Away, the 2 games all season I can recall where we have lost leads are at QPR, which frankly was entirely Dunk's fault for getting sent off. Ince's poor backpass at Derby was an individual error that it's hard to put at the manager's door.

There are so many decisive substitutions that have won us points. Ince closing things out at Fulham, Ipswich and against Blackburn, Birmingham, Rotherham and Hull at home. Forster-Caskey's superb pass forcing the winning penalty at Fulham. Hemed's 2 goals last week at MK. Zamora's winners at Leeds and against Bristol. Hemed completing the winning comeback against Charlton, converting Van la Parra's cross. Wilson's winner against Huddersfield.

I would contend CH's subs record is superb. Can anyone cite evidence to the contrary?

PG

 

[trueblue]

Evidence?

Yesterday, we were calling for Greer to match up Barnes, and I agree that Sidwell was a mistake (but don't forget he did clear off (sic) the line(!)) This needs to be balanced against Hughton's subs record across a long season. Yesterday was the first time at home we have taken the lead and not gone on to win the game. 11 previous victories. So the idea that shutting up shop has cost us dearly (certainly at home) is false.

Away, the 2 games all season I can recall where we have lost leads are at QPR, which frankly was entirely Dunk's fault for getting sent off. Ince's poor backpass at Derby was an individual error that it's hard to put at the manager's door.

There are so many decisive substitutions that have won us points. Ince closing things out at Fulham, Ipswich and against Blackburn, Birmingham, Rotherham and Hull at home. Forster-Caskey's superb pass forcing the winning penalty at Fulham. Hemed's 2 goals last week at MK. Zamora's winners at Leeds and against Bristol. Hemed completing the winning comeback against Charlton, converting Van la Parra's cross. Wilson's winner against Huddersfield.

I would contend CH's subs record is superb. Can anyone cite evidence to the contrary?

PG

Don't come on here with a rational argument backed up with proper evidence. What on earth are you playing at? ��

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Evidence?

Yesterday, we were calling for Greer to match up Barnes, and I agree that Sidwell was a mistake (but don't forget he did clear off (sic) the line(!)) This needs to be balanced against Hughton's subs record across a long season. Yesterday was the first time at home we have taken the lead and not gone on to win the game. 11 previous victories. So the idea that shutting up shop has cost us dearly (certainly at home) is false.

Away, the 2 games all season I can recall where we have lost leads are at QPR, which frankly was entirely Dunk's fault for getting sent off. Ince's poor backpass at Derby was an individual error that it's hard to put at the manager's door.

There are so many decisive substitutions that have won us points. Ince closing things out at Fulham, Ipswich and against Blackburn, Birmingham, Rotherham and Hull at home. Forster-Caskey's superb pass forcing the winning penalty at Fulham. Hemed's 2 goals last week at MK. Zamora's winners at Leeds and against Bristol. Hemed completing the winning comeback against Charlton, converting Van la Parra's cross. Wilson's winner against Huddersfield.

I would contend CH's subs record is superb. Can anyone cite evidence to the contrary?

PG

I wish I could give more than one thumbs up for this post.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

Sidwell came on in the 85th minute. We'd already been sitting back for 10-15 minutes before then. The substitution had no impact on the result IMO. What effected the result was giving away a needless freekick in a dangerous position and our inability to defend set pieces.

And our inability to kill the game off during the 70 minutes we were well on top.

And Joey Barton still being on the pitch.

Those three reasons are all well above the substitution of Sidwell for Hemed as to why we didn't win.

 

[Icy Gull]

Evidence?

Yesterday, we were calling for Greer to match up Barnes, and I agree that Sidwell was a mistake (but don't forget he did clear off (sic) the line(!)) This needs to be balanced against Hughton's subs record across a long season. Yesterday was the first time at home we have taken the lead and not gone on to win the game. 11 previous victories. So the idea that shutting up shop has cost us dearly (certainly at home) is false.

Away, the 2 games all season I can recall where we have lost leads are at QPR, which frankly was entirely Dunk's fault for getting sent off. Ince's poor backpass at Derby was an individual error that it's hard to put at the manager's door.

There are so many decisive substitutions that have won us points. Ince closing things out at Fulham, Ipswich and against Blackburn, Birmingham, Rotherham and Hull at home. Forster-Caskey's superb pass forcing the winning penalty at Fulham. Hemed's 2 goals last week at MK. Zamora's winners at Leeds and against Bristol. Hemed completing the winning comeback against Charlton, converting Van la Parra's cross. Wilson's winner against Huddersfield.

I would contend CH's subs record is superb. Can anyone cite evidence to the contrary?

PG

That is a very convincing argument. I have been worried everytime we shut up shop and invite pressure but the stats you quote are indeed impressive. Unfortunately I tend to expect an equaliser coming everytime we do it, I didn't realise that we had held out in every other game in which we had taken the lead at the Amex.

I have loved this season but I seldom actually ENJOY the experience once we have taken the lead at the Amex, it is nearly always a question of then hanging on which I find quite stressful.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Evidence?



Yesterday, we were calling for Greer to match up Barnes, and I agree that Sidwell was a mistake (but don't forget he did clear off (sic) the line(!)) This needs to be balanced against Hughton's subs record across a long season. Yesterday was the first time at home we have taken the lead and not gone on to win the game. 11 previous victories. So the idea that shutting up shop has cost us dearly (certainly at home) is false.



Away, the 2 games all season I can recall where we have lost leads are at QPR, which frankly was entirely Dunk's fault for getting sent off. Ince's poor backpass at Derby was an individual error that it's hard to put at the manager's door.



There are so many decisive substitutions that have won us points. Ince closing things out at Fulham, Ipswich and against Blackburn, Birmingham, Rotherham and Hull at home. Forster-Caskey's superb pass forcing the winning penalty at Fulham. Hemed's 2 goals last week at MK. Zamora's winners at Leeds and against Bristol. Hemed completing the winning comeback against Charlton, converting Van la Parra's cross. Wilson's winner against Huddersfield.



I would contend CH's subs record is superb. Can anyone cite evidence to the contrary?



PG

Great post, one to copy and paste again and again. Slight amendment to facts: we lost leads at Huddersfield and Reading.

 

[Worried Man Blues]

of course if Hughton hadn't made those subs we would have lost, obviously......

 

[Seasider78]

Sidwell came on in the 85th minute. We'd already been sitting back for 10-15 minutes before then. The substitution had no impact on the result IMO. What effected the result was giving away a needless freekick in a dangerous position and our inability to defend set pieces.

And our inability to kill the game off during the 70 minutes we were well on top.

And Joey Barton still being on the pitch.

Those three reasons are all well above the substitution of Sidwell for Hemed as to why we didn't win.

Spot on

 

[Aspinal's Body Double]

Evidence?

Yesterday, we were calling for Greer to match up Barnes, and I agree that Sidwell was a mistake (but don't forget he did clear off (sic) the line(!)) This needs to be balanced against Hughton's subs record across a long season. Yesterday was the first time at home we have taken the lead and not gone on to win the game. 11 previous victories. So the idea that shutting up shop has cost us dearly (certainly at home) is false.

Away, the 2 games all season I can recall where we have lost leads are at QPR, which frankly was entirely Dunk's fault for getting sent off. Ince's poor backpass at Derby was an individual error that it's hard to put at the manager's door.

There are so many decisive substitutions that have won us points. Ince closing things out at Fulham, Ipswich and against Blackburn, Birmingham, Rotherham and Hull at home. Forster-Caskey's superb pass forcing the winning penalty at Fulham. Hemed's 2 goals last week at MK. Zamora's winners at Leeds and against Bristol. Hemed completing the winning comeback against Charlton, converting Van la Parra's cross. Wilson's winner against Huddersfield.

I would contend CH's subs record is superb. Can anyone cite evidence to the contrary?

PG

Yes, very good post. My point was only about yesterday, and only about specifically defending corners in the air.

However, I've seen replay and agree Stockdale was blocked (and the corner was outswinging and harder to come for). I take back criticism of him

 

[scamander]

I can't really see much fault applied to Hughton, your lot played very well today and should have taken the 3 points. You had a gift of a chance in the first half and in the second half there was a break where you only needed to cross it to Wilson and he would have had a tap in.

Managers can't be blamed for these. I think that's why we celebrated the way we did, because we really stole a point.