Syria vote Labour demands evidence

[Seagull over Canaryland]

I suspect the Parliamentary 'No' vote tonight is a convenient way of showing the world (especially the US) that the UK Govt would like to support them in attacking Syria - but cannot now do so because it does not have a mandate from the British people (well the Labour party at least).

OK the vote may appear as a bloody nose for the Govt but then it was hardly standing Govt policy to attack Syria (despite the sensationalised report by Nick Robinson on BBC News), Just a reaction to the extreme situation in Syria and I suspect pressure from the US for us to join them in the usual military coalition.

The cynic in me feels this situation is playing out how it rather suits the Govt in private not to be drawn into a conflict and to some extent I agree. However that won't help the humanitarian situation in Syria.

I think tonight's vote also gives Ed Miliband a precious, if somewhat artificial foot on the big stage when he has been worse than lame for the last year or so.

Meanwhile the RAF Tornados are still over-flying these parts as I type this, which is most rare for them to be flying this time of night, since the military cutbacks. Last night the Typhoons were clearly visible outbound overhead, presumably off to Cyprus. So I wonder if they will be recalled?

 

[martyn20]

The only way he could get a vote through in the next few weeks is to make it a confidence vote as well as a military action vote, very dangerous but the only way we will be involved in action at all.
All down to Obama now

 

[fat old seagull]

How about trying to be a good human being, chemical weapons are not just about international law they are against basic human law. Sometimes doing the right thing is not just about our own national interest.

Well you're right there, it's certainly not in our national interests. This country is in deep financial poo, people dying needlessly due to cutbacks. But we can find the masses of dosh to whip some Syrian despots arse. And without a shadow of a doubt there are a few innocent men, women and children already living in misery that will be blown to dust.... collateral damage Cameron will call it. And when it's over we'll be thanked so gratefully by the masses in Syria like we have been in Iraq. We are in their eyes infidels and so we will remain. Let the UN sort it....it's not our feckin business.

 

[Biscuit]

Good. Too much needed to be clarified.

It's all too risky. You need to answer two questions - would an attack on Syria:
A) Further our or Global security; or
B) Will it help the wellbeing of the Syrian people long term.

A tactical strike and then washing our hands isn't an option. We'd need a campaign gameplan. To make a move, without a UN resolution, in that region would be madness.

I'm glad the Government were defeated on this on.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think tonight's vote also gives Ed Miliband a precious, if somewhat artificial foot on the big stage

it gives him perceived limelight on the big stage, viewed from here. not necessarily from the bigger stage itself. he wanted to wait for evidence but didnt himself and has dismissed the option of military action. Labour had an amendment which was reject by a far larger majority too, so this is not necessarily a great situation for either party. interesting weekend ahead in westminister.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Either the Govt was incredibly naïve in presuming it had a cast iron case for military action (when clearly the evidence is thin) - or looking at the bigger picture it has deliberately allowed this vote to play out so it does not drawn into a conflict, with no clear end game.

Cock up or conspiracy? My money is on cock up.

 

[Sergei's Celebration]

Good. Too much needed to be clarified.

It's all too risky. You need to answer two questions - would an attack on Syria:
A) Further our or Global security; or
B) Will it help the wellbeing of the Syrian people long term.

A tactical strike and then washing our hands isn't an option. We'd need a campaign gameplan. To make a move, without a UN resolution, in that region would be madness.

I'm glad the Government were defeated on this on.

What does not attacking Syria say about using chemical weapons?

You will never get a resolution with China and Russia but an attack would still be legal.

How do you know there isn't a campaign plan?

 

[martyn20]

So putting aside the difficult question of who actually dropped them how to we (the International Community) stop it happening again, or do we just let them get on with it?

 

[drew]

All these people banging on about the UN should be aware that you will never get a motion agreed because Russia and/or China have their own agenda and their own attitude to human rights would suggest they don't give a monkeys about a few arabs getting gassed so long as it doesn't affect their interests. That said, it won't prevent any action.

As for Cameron, this is a big humiliation for him and no way would he be secretly grateful. He has a publicly bloodied nose at a time when forces in his own party are grumbling about him. Why would he risk a motion he secretly doesn't support getting passed. Makes no sense.

 

[martyn20]

All these people banging on about the UN should be aware that you will never get a motion agreed because Russia and/or China have their own agenda and their own attitude to human rights would suggest they don't give a monkeys about a few arabs getting gassed so long as it doesn't affect their interests. That said, it won't prevent any action.

As for Cameron, this is a big humiliation for him and no way would he be secretly grateful. He has a publicly bloodied nose at a time when forces in his own party are grumbling about him. Why would he risk a motion he secretly doesn't support getting passed. Makes no sense.

If Cameron stays and fights which I am sure he will someone might have to go instead, I feel Billy Hague may have an early retirement.

 

[Stoo82]

I suspect the Parliamentary 'No' vote tonight is a convenient way of showing the world (especially the US) that the UK Govt would like to support them in attacking Syria - but cannot now do so because it does not have a mandate from the British people (well the Labour party at least).

OK the vote may appear as a bloody nose for the Govt but then it was hardly standing Govt policy to attack Syria (despite the sensationalised report by Nick Robinson on BBC News), Just a reaction to the extreme situation in Syria and I suspect pressure from the US for us to join them in the usual military coalition.

The cynic in me feels this situation is playing out how it rather suits the Govt in private not to be drawn into a conflict and to some extent I agree. However that won't help the humanitarian situation in Syria.

I think tonight's vote also gives Ed Miliband a precious, if somewhat artificial foot on the big stage when he has been worse than lame for the last year or so.

Meanwhile the RAF Tornados are still over-flying these parts as I type this, which is most rare for them to be flying this time of night, since the military cutbacks. Last night the Typhoons were clearly visible outbound overhead, presumably off to Cyprus. So I wonder if they will be recalled?

Acording to Newsnight many Labour MPs did not turn up. It was the Torys that voted against both bills.

 

[Albumen]

Tories defeat Cameron. Oh yes.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

There's no relying on Russia.

We'll get told to man up, by a rather camp topless chap in camouflaged trousers claiming to have caught a shark, when in reality it was no bigger than a whitebait. Championing wood chopping, hunting and other manly outdoor pursuits. The bender.

 

[somerset]

Tories defeat Cameron. Oh yes.

Really comforting for those getting murdered on a daily basis....eh?.... your petty party politics, your narrow minded phyrric victory..... you enjoy your moment..... I am sure the Syrians are very pleased for you.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

Really comforting for those getting murdered on a daily basis....eh?.... your petty party politics, your narrow minded phyrric victory..... you enjoy your moment..... I am sure the Syrians are very pleased for you.

Because it is Britain's role to act as a World Police? If the United Nations deem that what has happened is a war crime then military action is acceptable. Until then the warmongering ***** can **** off.

 

[nomoremithras4me]

No one cares what we (NSC) think, they're (Syria) are having it large, right or wrong, it's gonna happen!

 

[somerset]

Because it is Britain's role to act as a World Police? If the United Nations deem that what has happened is a war crime then military action is acceptable. Until then the warmongering ***** can **** off.

As narrow a view as I have read on here, and that is saying something...

 

[martyn20]

The US is to release it's own newly declassified intelligence report on the Syrian attacks tomorrow, that should include intercepted communications from the Assad regime discussing the attack.
No matter how strong the evidence is the UK defence secretary has confirmed the UK will not be involved in any military action after tonight's vote.

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Really comforting for those getting murdered on a daily basis....eh?.... your petty party politics, your narrow minded phyrric victory..... you enjoy your moment..... I am sure the Syrians are very pleased for you.

Very sadly tonight's vote won't help the humanitarian situation in Syria. But petty Party politics? - well maybe on the face of it but surely it is not quite as simple as that - the evidence presented to Parliament was not conclusive enough for most, plus the outcome of the proposed military intervention is not clear either. OK we could bomb the Syrian military capability, but then what? So should we just wade into a conflict that (currently) has no legitimate basis or clear end game? It is about time we voted with our consciences and paused - rather than rush headlong yet again on the US coat tails. Maybe it is a convenient 'bottle job' but also it's democracy in action.

 

[Fitzcarraldo]

As narrow a view as I have read on here, and that is saying something...

What is your summation of the situation then?

What I believe is that until the United Nations report is filed, we shouldn't come to a decision.