Syria any one else not buying this BS

[martyn20]

Different languages....?

No, that is not the reason at all, and if you believe that is the point, then it beggers belief.



pssst...I think you may find both sides in civil wars tend to speak the same language.

So when you say -

for the life of me, ive no idea why we are suddenly supporting and arming groups that are screaming Allah Al Akhbar In Syria, in Libya, and in Egypt.

you have a problem with them being Muslim? The fact that Gaddafi and Assad, who had very little support among the populations of their own countries, were using heavy weaponry to wipe out towns and villages of men, women and children meant nothing and we could not help because the civilian fighters were Muslim and shouted Allah Al Akhbar?

 

[daveinprague]

I have no problems with muslims. My gf is muslim. I do have a problem with fundamental muslims such as Al Qaeda, Taliban etc, who use the term Allah Al Akhbar when they commit violence...Do you know that fundamental muslims are not orchestrating this violence?

Why do you want to involve British men and women in foreign CIVIL wars that are f*** all to do with the UK? Because children are killed?
A bit selective mate, as children are killed in civil wars all over the world, and mostly we do not intervene.

 

[martyn20]

I have no problems with muslims. My gf is muslim. I do have a problem with fundamental muslims such as Al Qaeda, Taliban etc, who use the term Allah Al Akhbar when they commit violence...

Why do you want to involve British men and women in foreign wars that are f*** all to do with the UK? Because children are killed?
A bit selective mate, as children are killed in civil wars all over the world, and mostly we do not intervene.

It is also said in every Mosque as part of their prayers, every Muslim will say that phrase 5 times a day if they carry out their 'obligatory prayers' but you don't think we should support people who say it at all, never, whatever is being done to them? Now that beggers belief!

 

[ROKERITE]

It is also said in every Mosque as part of their prayers, every Muslim will say that phrase 5 times a day if they carry out their 'obligatory prayers' but you don't think we should support people who say it at all, never, whatever is being done to them? Now that beggers belief!

My Goodness! It's a thread where my sympathies are with daveinprague.

 

[billybha]

It is also said in every Mosque as part of their prayers, every Muslim will say that phrase 5 times a day if they carry out their 'obligatory prayers' but you don't think we should support people who say it at all, never, whatever is being done to them? Now that beggers belief!

You knew exactly what he meant clever bollocks.

 

[martyn20]

You knew exactly what he meant clever bollocks.

Please explain it to me clever bollocks, you think his point totally based on that phrase made sense?

 

[martyn20]

You seem incredibly misinformed. The rebels in both Libya and Syria deliberately base themselves in populated places (using women & children as human shields against their wills) so the regimes armies have no choice other than to fight in these populated places. Yes the military has heavy weaponry - but so do the rebels (partly thanks to the US). It became desperate, the rebels were taking over towns & villages one-by-one, the regimes were/are falling - These leaders have been merely trying to protect their nations from Islamic extremists/terrorist groups - but they have failed/are failing. Why else would you think Assad is doing what he can to assist his people finding refuge in Jordan?

It is not the fact that they say "Allahu Akbar", it's the activities they do when this mantra is chanted. It's usually oriented around blowing people up, beheading civilians for supporting their leader, stoning people because of their faith and other heinous acts to terrorise their way into power.

You know that's not what's been happening, rebels attack a convoy with small arms as it travels through a town and the next moment the town is attacked by helicopter and heavy artillery, there is no thought for civilians living in the town. You think that's totally the rebels fault and not Assads?

 

[billybha]

You know that's not what's been happening, rebels attack a convoy with small arms as it travels through a town and the next moment the town is attacked by helicopter and heavy artillery, there is no thought for civilians living in the town. You think that's totally the rebels fault and not Assads?

Do you think us arming the rebels has created an escalation in violence?

 

[martyn20]

My Goodness! It's a thread where my sympathies are with daveinprague.

I didn't mean to be rude just could not believe the argument he was making.

 

[martyn20]

Do you think us arming the rebels has created an escalation in violence?

In Libya it ended to violence, so far, though the fat lady has not sung in that country yet. I don't think he have armed the rebels very much so far in Syria, have we sent them helicopters and tanks and shells and machine guns yet? I hope we don't have to as it will be a massive sh*t storm very unlike the limited intervention in Libya.
If Assad or his army, who he claims he does not fully control due use chemical weapons all bets are off.

 

[ROKERITE]

I didn't mean to be rude just could not believe the argument he was making.

You weren't being rude. It's just so unusual for me to agree completely with daveinprague on anything, but on this subject I do; and it follows on that disagree with nearly everything you've written; though you've written it, in the main, in a perfectly polite way.
Assad and his regime are despicable but I (and I'd guess most others) fear that whatever replaces it will be so much worse.

 

[martyn20]

You weren't being rude. It's just so unusual for me to agree completely with daveinprague on anything, but on this subject I do; and it follows on that disagree with nearly everything you've written; though you've written it, in the main, in a perfectly polite way.
Assad and his regime are despicable but I (and I'd guess most others) fear that whatever replaces it will be so much worse.

Oh I fear what will follow, as I do what will follow in Libya but sometimes that risk has to be taken to do what's right. For the West keeping Mubarak is place would have been far better but that's not what the majority of Egyptian wanted.

 

[martyn20]

Not all of the rebels will have access to heavy artillery - but I can tell you now that the FSA have RPG's, tanks, kalashnikovs, rifles, steyr augs and more. There are countless videos of them using all of these in populated areas with no concern for civilian life. In fact they choose to fight in populated areas in the hope that civilians will die so they can use the statistics for propaganda purposes, to gain support from the West. It's become desperate, civilians were always going to die in a civil & territorial war but Assad OBVIOUSLY isn't trying to wipe out the very people he is trying to protect.

In future, when you read a report on the situation and it says "The FSA claims..." consider that what follows in all probability will be absolute bullshit.

Assad recently did not totally rule out the use of chemical weapons, what could he need them for, they destroy everyone in such a wide area

 

[billybha]

No, Assad said nothing of the sort. You'll find it was a Syrian defect who said that.

Its perfect to up the ante though eh

 

[martyn20]

No, Assad said nothing of the sort. You'll find it was a Syrian defect who said that.

After that politician defected Assad was asked about it and did not use the opportunity to rule out there use. I didn't say Assad said he was ready to use them. It seems only pressure from Russia has stopped their use so far.

 

[martyn20]

Its perfect to up the ante though eh

I totally understand the point you are making re scaring everyone sh*tless and you can do anything, the Patriot Act is a good example of how it works. I do think Assad and his generals are doing a lot of what is being reported though, they are very capable and they have the resources.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

I have been to Damascus, and have good friends who live there. I hope they are all OK.

 

[daveinprague]

It is also said in every Mosque as part of their prayers, every Muslim will say that phrase 5 times a day if they carry out their 'obligatory prayers' but you don't think we should support people who say it at all, never, whatever is being done to them? Now that beggers belief!

I understand fully, like I said, my GF is a muslim. I also lived in Saudi Arabia for two years, right next to a mosque and was treated to it 5 times a day via loud speakers attached to the minarets...
Assads government was/is not religiously based. Its more secular than most, and the people that appear to be rebelling, are the ones screaming the fundamentalist mantra of Allah Al Akhbar when firing weapons, shooting at planes, ambushing convoys etc.
We saw the same thing in Afghanistan with the Russians, but we armed the lunatics to fight 'our' enemy... now its turned to shit, and now British men and women are getting killed in Afghanistan, by people who are battle hardened since the Russians.
Its nothing to do with Britain. If somebody wants to intervene, let the French. It was their dominion, not ours.

 

[martyn20]

I understand fully, like I said, my GF is a muslim. I also lived in Saudi Arabia for two years, right next to a mosque and was treated to it 5 times a day via loud speakers attached to the minarets...
Assads government was/is not religiously based. Its more secular than most, and the people that appear to be rebelling, are the ones screaming the fundamentalist mantra of Allah Al Akhbar when firing weapons, shooting at planes, ambushing convoys etc.
We saw the same thing in Afghanistan with the Russians, but we armed the lunatics to fight 'our' enemy... now its turned to shit, and now British men and women are getting killed in Afghanistan, by people who are battle hardened since the Russians.
Its nothing to do with Britain. If somebody wants to intervene, let the French. It was their dominion, not ours.

But of course our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan was very different from our intervention in Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan was the wrong way to do it but Libya was the right away. It can be done without losing our boys lives and spending billions of years of action.
Having said that I do not think we should intervene in Syria right now, the Russian and Chinese involvement is a major problem but I do think many innocent people are being killed by a regime trying to hang on to power as Gaddafi and Mubarak tried to do.

 

[martyn20]

It is commonly known that Syria, like all Middle Eastern nations, have stockpiles of chemical weapons. The biggest fear is what will happen if the rebels get their hands on them.

Assad will have absolutely no intention of using them, if only through fear of further nato intervention.

I hope so but if he keeps using heavy artillery, attack helicopters and planes he won't have to use WMD's, there will be very little left.