[Brighton] Sussex Police

[The Clamp]

While I fully understand your argument, the implication is that the PCSO was waiting for back-up, but failed to communicate this.

Do you know if this is the case? As a PCSO, he isn't required to attend those incidents anyway. So if he had said 'I'm waiting for back-up', it wouldn't have been true, would it?

As a lone worker he would have been advised not to attend without full police support.

Once police are on the scene a PCSO can assist.

 

[Eric the meek]

As a lone worker he would have been advised not to attend without full police support.

Once police are on the scene a PCSO can assist.

OK, I understand. So this is really a comms issue, which went pear-shaped.

This wouldn't have happened before the internet.

 

[The Clamp]

I’m not an expert on PCSO protocol but I work with police and to a lesser degree PCSO’s.

From my working knowledge, the PCSO followed the correct procedure.

He simply failed to communicate effectively.

In fact, he shouldn’t have even commented on the situation except to say;

“We are aware of the situation”

And left it at that. Never enter into a debate with the public about an ongoing situation.

 

[Cornwallboy]

He’s not authorised or trained to use blues and twos. But he should have driven by at least

Totally agree and I didn't realise he's not authorised.

 

[Eric the meek]

I’m not an expert on PCSO protocol but I work with police and to a lesser degree PCSO’s.

From my working knowledge, the PCSO followed the correct procedure.

He simply failed to communicate effectively.

In fact, he shouldn’t have even commented on the situation except to say;

“We are aware of the situation”

And left it at that. Never enter into a debate with the public about an ongoing situation.

Do you know or have you worked with this PCSO?

Apologies if an unfair question...

 

[The Clamp]

Do you know or have you worked with this PCSO?

Apologies if an unfair question...

I don’t know them.

I can only comment on what I have read about the situation.

My take on it is that he did the correct thing but communicated it poorly. And as I say, should not have entered into a debate about it.

I’ll add that any interaction I’ve had with PCSO’s on the job has been positive and they’ve been very helpful.

 

[The Clamp]

There’s a police and partner services open day at the Level in Brighton this Saturday, the 8th.

If you want to know more about PCSO’s and other partner agencies’ role in the community, head down there. 11am-2pm I believe

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I think the phrase the officer used in the car was unfortunate in that he said he'd have to deal with it where as what Clamp said, waiting for back up would have been more appropriate.

I think there is quite a bit of lack of understanding what a PCSO does and their role. They do a lot of the more basic roles of policing such as guarding a crime scene, helping close roads when there is an accident, looking for missing persons, dealing with reports of anti social behaviour, liaising with local businessiness, being a point of contact for the local community and being seen out and about.

Now it's valid to argue this should all be done by police officers but there are two main issues here I believe, 1. there isn't enough police to deal with the more serious crimes let alone these; 2. you now need a degree level qualification to be a police constantable. Speaking with people in the force (I know a few) they have said that many people join to train on the job but find it too much to do the job and coursework so quit. Also, a lot of PCSO's who would like to step up to the role of PC again find the work load too much and don't. I'm not really convinced you need to be degree level qualified to be a PC, especially if you have been, for example, working as a PCSO for many years.

The clue is in the name, especially the community support part of the name. They are members of the public who work for the Police to help support policing in the community by fulfilling roles that don't really require a front line officer to deal with, helping to free those officers up to deal with other things. They are not Police Officers.

Their role that is designed to reduce the time that Police Officers would otherwise lose to things like taking / collecting witness statements, possibly door knocking when looking for leads (ie did you see anything unusal in the area last night) following an event (like someone being assulted the previous night, or maybe a hit and run... etc)

Would you rather a front line Police officer failing to respond to an ongoing major live incident because they happened to be at someone's house taking a witness statement

PSCOs are cheaper (earn less) so it frees up money too, that can be spent on more Police officers or to help meet other budgetry needs

At the end of the day, it's like many things in this country, there is massive under investment as our tax money just seems to dissappear, I wonder where it all goes:

How much does UK national debt cost?

Debt is the total amount owed by the Government which has accumulated over the years. Debt is therefore a much larger sum of money. At the end of 2022/23 public sector net debt was £2,530 billion (i.e. £2.5 trillion), which is equivalent to 100% of GDP. This is equivalent to around £38,000 per person in the UK.8 Jun 2023

-------

Britain will spend more than half a trillion pounds servicing the national debt in the coming years.

In a bleak set of forecasts that underlined the parlous state of the public finances, the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) said debt interest payments will total £120.4billion this year – or £1,800 per person in the UK.

The bill is more than double last year’s £56.4billion and more than is spent on any government department, bar health.

The national debt has ballooned since the turn of the century – rising from £354bn in 2000 to £2.5trillion today – as the financial crisis, Covid pandemic and energy crisis wreaked havoc with the public finances.

The cost of servicing the debt has been pushed up by rising interest rates and gilt yields as well as soaring inflation.

UK national debt interest payments set to total £120.4bn this year

The bill - 4.8% of GDP - is more than double last year's £56.4bn and more than is spent on any government department, bar health.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Agree with that it could've done, but he had a duty to attend. To not to was cowardly. Don't become a PCSO if you don't want to deal with potentially dangerous situations.

Again, they are not Police Officers, and you appear confused as to what their role actually is and what authority they actually have (plus what the organisation would probably let them do due to things like H&S)
Would you have the same expectation for every type of civilian role within the Police (like someone working in finance, call handler or maybe even a PA to a chief oficer?)
- ie you would expect them be required to attend this sort of incident, solo without adequate protections in place to ensure their own H&S? What if they then got stabbed and killed? would that be an acceptable outcome to you and just part of the risk of the job, because you wanted / expected them to attend a potentially very dangerous incident

 

[banjo]

I get it, a PCSO looks like a policeman (person) but isn’t actually a policeman (person)
At bit like Locadia, looked like a striker, but actually wasn’t a striker.

 

[Cornwallboy]

Again, they are not Police Officers, and you appear confused as to what their role actually is and what authority they actually have (plus what the organisation would probably let them do due to things like H&S)
Would you have the same expectation for every type of civilian role within the Police (like someone working in finance, call handler or maybe even a PA to a chief oficer?)
- ie you would expect them be required to attend this sort of incident, solo without adequate protections in place to ensure their own H&S? What if they then got stabbed and killed? would that be an acceptable outcome to you and just part of the risk of the job, because you wanted / expected them to attend a potentially very dangerous incident

They are office based jobs so clearly not.

Clearly someone getting stabbed or killed would not be an acceptable outcome to me.

As stated earlier he should've attended, even if had just driven there, to act as Police presence.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

They are office based jobs so clearly not.

Clearly someone getting stabbed or killed would not be an acceptable outcome to me.

As stated earlier he should've attended, even if had just driven there, to act as Police presence.

Driven there and then what? -gets criticised for not getting out of the car? Would that be any different / better (clearly the issue was with how the PCSO connunicated with the member of the public, and the lack of understanding that the member(s) of public have with what a PCSO's role is)

Clearly from my earlier post, there are incidents where the (nearby) public don't respect the Police any more, there are even those who are willing to fight with the Police whilst being filmed by onlookers (a few bad apples and the incidents in the US which has led to the public feeling like they need to police the Police so they see any (reasonable) use of to try to detain someone who is non compliant as excessive and some clearly try to get involved because they think they are going to kill or seriously injure the person they are trying to arrest.

 

[sydney]

Lancing is mainly populated by people on the sick and perma- stoned laborers. Should be a doddle to police.

TSK..!!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

They are office based jobs so clearly not.

Clearly someone getting stabbed or killed would not be an acceptable outcome to me.

As stated earlier he should've attended, even if had just driven there, to act as Police presence.

But it wouldn’t be police presence because he isn’t a policeman. If you don’t think yobs understand hierarchy you would soon change your mind if you worked in a school. Patrol (or whatever a school happens to call it) is made up of members of SLT not TAs or even ordinary teachers. This is who gets called in to deal with incidents in classrooms or corridors.

 

[carlzeiss]

Not a good week for our local Co-op stores

https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2023-07-04/delays-and-disruption-for-rail-passengers-after-crane-used-in-co-op-ram-raid

 

[BrightonCottager]

Lancing is mainly populated by people on the sick and perma- stoned laborers. Should be a doddle to police.

Don't you live in Lancing? I guess you're in the minority, then?

 

[drew]

Seems a lot more to this than meets the eye. On GMB they pointed out that this PCSO was involved in saving a life on the beach a few years ago. The suggestion was his communication was poor but that it was right that he couldn't arrest anyone. However, like others, the mere presence of a Police car may have caused the felons to disperse or it may have aggravated the situation.

 

[carlzeiss]

Seems a lot more to this than meets the eye. On GMB they pointed out that this PCSO was involved in saving a life on the beach a few years ago. The suggestion was his communication was poor but that it was right that he couldn't arrest anyone. However, like others, the mere presence of a Police car may have caused the felons to disperse or it may have aggravated the situation.

Thankfully as far as I can tell there were no serious injury's as a result of this incident outside Lancing Co-op but if there had have been then I don't think that an explanation that the PCSO didn't attend in order not to aggravate the offender would have gone down very well with any injured innocent person .

At the very least by driving around the corner the PCSO might have been able to be a reliable witness if an offense was still in progress which resulted in an arrest and a possible court case .