Supply the entire world with solar electiricty

[Megazone]

Tell me more about magnetic energy as i don't know much about it (your video didn't really help. This coupled with its conspiracy feel was why I dismissed it as such).

How is it cheaper and more ecologically friendly than solar?

Solar panels are actually expensive and are not as energy efficent as people like you like to preach.

Don't you need to have a mother solar panel to charge all the ones in the area? They don't just absorb the sun and then create electricity. It will mean people can still charge you for the energy you're 'freely' gaining.

Could be wrong though.

 

[Pizza]

high voltage DC removes the transmission losses (AC was used originally because of technology i forget restricted DC, which has since been resolved). Rare earths are not as constrained by China as is apparent, they aren't actually rare and its pollution from the extraction processes that keep them in China. the main problem of solar is its variability, even if there was a 99% efficient conversion (though that would make it very cheap by then).

You're saying that supplying the entire world from one patch of its surface would incur zero thermal losses through current technology?

Also it's not that they're rare its that China tends to undercut the price of elements like neodymium whenever someone starts digging for it, keeping the price of them high in the long run.

 

[Megazone]

why dont you toddle off then and create a magnetic energy plant, and use which ever of Teslas surpressed but widely known ideas will give free energy. come back when you have something usable and reliable at a domestic level.


back to reality, the trouble with solar panels is energy storage for night time or cloud cover. as i understand it they are not good at high peak loads or variation in demand either. the environment impact on their manufacture is overlooked as well (being made in China has allowed us to pretty much ignore it). they are terribly efficient at what they do, though improving. really a better solution would be thorium nuclear and/or a hydrogen based system, possibly using solar for the electrolysis stage.

So you're not bothered by the fact we will still be charged for solar energy?

Free energy, that's the bit which makes solar slightly flawed.

 

[BadFish]

Solar panels are actually expensive and are not as energy efficent as people like you like to preach.

Don't you need to have a mother solar panel to charge all the ones in the area? They don't just absorb the sun and then create electricity. It will mean people can still charge you for the energy you're 'freely' gaining.

Could be wrong though.

Solar panels are becoming cheaper as time moves on. the technology is by no means perfect but then nor is the research into it finished. Not sure about the idea of people still charging. Over here once you have bought your solar panels then the engery you produce is yours.

So tell me why magnetic energy is better? Cheaper and more ecologically friendly you said.

 

[Megazone]

It's not in English. What's it supposed to say, 'look, here's a battery powered motor'?

It's complicated. Best you just watch it like you did before.

 

[Machiavelli]

this maybe true but the technology of solar is improving at a steady rate. The point being made is that the energy is there, we just have to find away to efficiently store it and use it.

I think that there are problems with all systems and we are not at a point where any of them are completely workable but with decent funding and a little time we should be able to move away from fossil fuels and into safe renewable energy.

The key point with solar and other renewables is that we need to find out ways of effective energy storage and transportation. We need to direct huge sums of public money into researching this, as it's not beyond human capability. Once that's sorted, a combination of micro-solar and enormous farms in the desert regions ought to see us right. If this is right, the only other questions are: do we have the political will to achieve this; and do we have the political institutions to bring this to fruition.

 

[BadFish]

The key point with solar and other renewables is that we need to find out ways of effective energy storage and transportation. We need to direct huge sums of public money into researching this, as it's not beyond human capability. Once that's sorted, a combination of micro-solar and enormous farms in the desert regions ought to see us right. If this is right, the only other questions are: do we have the political will to achieve this; and do we have the political institutions to bring this to fruition.

From Australia's point of view at the moment I can answer both of those questions and it is no. Which is odd really as we get a lot of sun....... We also have a lot of coal to shift so won't have anything to do with those dastardly renewables.

 

[Triggaaar]

It's complicated. Best you just watch it like you did before.

I didn't think you'd know.

 

[Megazone]

Solar panels are becoming cheaper as time moves on. the technology is by no means perfect but then nor is the research into it finished. Not sure about the idea of people still charging. Over here once you have bought your solar panels then the engery you produce is yours.

So tell me why magnetic energy is better? Cheaper and more ecologically friendly you said.

Right now solar power cells are expensive and somewhat dirty to produce as they are made from semiconducting wafers.

can you explain why solar is better?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Solar panels are actually expensive and are not as energy efficent as people like you like to preach.

Don't you need to have a mother solar panel to charge all the ones in the area? They don't just absorb the sun and then create electricity. It will mean people can still charge you for the energy you're 'freely' gaining.

Could be wrong though.

The solar collectors proposed in desert regions are generally not solar panels like you have on a roof, they are mirrors which concentrate the suns rays onto a specific point, the collector, which generates heat which generates energy. These are called Concentrated Solar Power 'CSP' plants. In the great scheme of things, they are not really any different to a kid lighting a bit of paper in the garden with a magnifying glass.

 

[beorhthelm]

You're saying that supplying the entire world from one patch of its surface would incur zero thermal losses through current technology?

i don't believe its loss less but DC has orders of magnitude less. at the time of building out electrical power there wasnt the technology for DC to work as well as AC. AC has a lot of problems, increasing at distance, but they where easily solvable to AC won (transformers allowing to up down scale voltage is the main one i recall). there has been a proposal for some years for African/southern Europe solar plants, Icelandic Geothermal, Scandinavian (and UK) Hydro feeding into a massive European and African wide network, relying on DC transmissions. and political will of course.

 

[beorhthelm]

So you're not bothered by the fact we will still be charged for solar energy?

Free energy, that's the bit which makes solar slightly flawed.

solar needs plant to generate the power and networks to distribute between sources of supply and demand. as i say, if you have a workable, scaleble solution for domestic use, then present it (not even asking for the real challenge of industrial scale). because right now those you see on youtube are for interesting lab toys, they dont scale. magnetic energy or "free energy" doesn't do any usfull work.

 

[Megazone]

solar needs plant to generate the power and networks to distribute between sources of supply and demand. as i say, if you have a workable, scaleble solution for domestic use, then present it (not even asking for the real challenge of industrial scale). because right now those you see on youtube are for interesting lab toys, they dont scale. magnetic energy or "free energy" doesn't do any usfull work.

My house has solar panels on the roof. I've still got to pay for my electricity, as before.

But yeah, youtube.......

 

[Nibble]

Magnetic energy is a non starter.
On my cabin in Cornwall I have solar panels connected to leisure batteries, plus a refurbed water mill at the bottom of the field which is great in winter but not so much in summer when the stream falls low. Capturing and storage is not a problem but distributing it on a global scale is tough.

That said, why mankind hasn't figured out a way to do this is pretty pathetic and can only really lead one to think there is some force stopping progress. Oil industries I should imagine, who knows.

 

[BadFish]

Right now solar power cells are expensive and somewhat dirty to produce as they are made from semiconducting wafers.

can you explain why solar is better?

What I can do is compare all the information on this thread about solar power with all the information on this thread about magnetic power and draw a conclusion.

Solar power is better.

Perhaps you would like to share some information about Magnetic energy to give a fairer comparison? You stated it was cheaper and more ecologically friendly.

Over to you

 

[Nibble]

It's complicated. Best you just watch it like you did before.

Haha. That's CT for "I don't know".

 

[Megazone]

What I can do is compare all the information on this thread about solar power with all the information on this thread about magnetic power and draw a conclusion.

Solar power is better.

When light is travelling through a material that does not conduct electricity, the light field can generate magnetic effects that are 100 million times stronger than previously expected. Under these circumstances, the magnetic effects develop strength equivalent to a strong electric effect. This could lead to a new kind of solar cell without semiconductors and without absorption to produce charge separation. In solar cells, the light goes into a material, gets absorbed and creates heat. Here, we expect to have a very low heat load. Instead of the light being absorbed, energy is stored in the magnetic moment. Intense magnetization can be induced by intense light and then it is ultimately capable of providing a capacitive power source.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-04/15/magnetic-solar-cells

 

[BadFish]

Haha. That's CT for "I don't know".

Just like 'do your own research' which i fear is heading the way of this thread

 

[BadFish]

When light is travelling through a material that does not conduct electricity, the light field can generate magnetic effects that are 100 million times stronger than previously expected. Under these circumstances, the magnetic effects develop strength equivalent to a strong electric effect. This could lead to a new kind of solar cell without semiconductors and without absorption to produce charge separation. In solar cells, the light goes into a material, gets absorbed and creates heat. Here, we expect to have a very low heat load. Instead of the light being absorbed, energy is stored in the magnetic moment. Intense magnetization can be induced by intense light and then it is ultimately capable of providing a capacitive power source.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2011-04/15/magnetic-solar-cells

Could, you are telling me that Magnetic energy is cheaper and more ecologically friendly than solar based on something that 'could' happen.

I suggest that while we wait to see if it does we should just give up on other energy sources and hope for the best.

Sorry to be sarcastic but i you really suggesting that i compare two energy sources when one is still in the experimental stage and the other is a fair way along its technological journey. I just don't think the two things bare comparison sorry.

 

[Megazone]

Haha. That's CT for "I don't know".

That said, why mankind hasn't figured out a way to do this is pretty pathetic and can only really lead one to think there is some force stopping progress. Oil industries I should imagine, who knows.

You really are confused.