Sunderland offer

[Papa Lazarou]

Spot on. And this means we should hold out unless and until Gus offers what we want for Liam. I believe he is way, way short of our valuation at present.

Odd isn't it?

Gus said he wanted to build a team / style of play around CMS; but in the end he built it around Liam Bridcutt. Hence, he's really the only player that can fill the Liam shaped hole in his Sunderland team.

 

[northstandsteve]

When Cattermole is gone, Liam will be a done deal.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

The values won't be far apart at all in my view. Deals don't go on like this when the clubs are miles apart. The buying team has a list of player, makes a sensible offer, if it's clear the difference in valuation is massive then they move down the list to the next target.

The Bridcutt transfer request was a sign of that. An agent instructs the player to submit a request. It's a tactic used to try and force a deal on the brink. There is literally no reason to put in a transfer request when the fees are far apart. It waives the players automatic right to a contractual sign on fee and it also makes them look like a dick.

Let's be clear here. Transfers are very rarely nowadays a solid fee paid. They are incentivised and structured. Teams don't have the money to splurge up front.

Just a guess obviously, but I imagine, as it's still rumbling on, that the deal will be at a stage of ironing out the small differences in how the fee is structurted rather than the actual total value of the deal.

Obviously a selling club will want as much WONGA up front as possible, with the selling club wanting an incentivised offer. In Sunderlands case I wouldn't be suprised if a relatively large "X amount paid if Sunderland avoid relegation" would have been offered at the outset as it means they can avoid said payment if they do go down, but then also are happy to pay a large end-of-season fee if they do remain in the promised land.

 

[JBizzle]

Odd isn't it?

Gus said he wanted to build a team / style of play around CMS; but in the end he built it around Liam Bridcutt. Hence, he's really the only player that can fill the Liam shaped hole in his Sunderland team.

When you put it that way, it's funny how we ended up building a promotion chasing team around a defensive midfielder!

I'd also add that at no point did it appear that Gus was playing to CMS' strengths.

 

[glasfryn]

Spot on. And this means we should hold out unless and until Gus offers what we want for Liam. I believe he is way, way short of our valuation at present.

its not Gus that is buying him though is it
I am sure Gus would love to get him for a knock down price but its is up to Sunderland what they pay not Gus

 

[Machiavelli]

When Cattermole is gone, Liam will be a done deal.

It might be the case that the one will trigger the other, provided B&HA want it to happen which, in turn, is related to how much Sunderland offer for it to happen. The one thing I'm a little flummoxed by is who knows that Cattermole is going? There's also a £5m figure quoted. Cattermole doesn't spend much time on the pitch, due to injuries and bookings. He's also extremely fond of getting himself booked in the first few minutes of a match, which reduces his effectiveness thereafter. This has to compromise his value and attractiveness to other clubs.

 

[Machiavelli]

The values won't be far apart at all in my view. Deals don't go on like this when the clubs are miles apart. The buying team has a list of player, makes a sensible offer, if it's clear the difference in valuation is massive then they move down the list to the next target.

The Bridcutt transfer request was a sign of that. An agent instructs the player to submit a request. It's a tactic used to try and force a deal on the brink. There is literally no reason to put in a transfer request when the fees are far apart. It waives the players automatic right to a contractual sign on fee and it also makes them look like a dick.

Let's be clear here. Transfers are very rarely nowadays a solid fee paid. They are incentivised and structured. Teams don't have the money to splurge up front.

Just a guess obviously, but I imagine, as it's still rumbling on, that the deal will be at a stage of ironing out the small differences in how the fee is structurted rather than the actual total value of the deal.

Obviously a selling club will want as much WONGA up front as possible, with the selling club wanting an incentivised offer. In Sunderlands case I wouldn't be suprised if a relatively large "X amount paid if Sunderland avoid relegation" would have been offered at the outset as it means they can avoid said payment if they do go down, but then also are happy to pay a large end-of-season fee if they do remain in the promised land.

Think that this is an astute analysis of the situation.

 

[B.W.]

The values won't be far apart at all in my view. Deals don't go on like this when the clubs are miles apart. The buying team has a list of player, makes a sensible offer, if it's clear the difference in valuation is massive then they move down the list to the next target.

The Bridcutt transfer request was a sign of that. An agent instructs the player to submit a request. It's a tactic used to try and force a deal on the brink. There is literally no reason to put in a transfer request when the fees are far apart. It waives the players automatic right to a contractual sign on fee and it also makes them look like a dick.

Let's be clear here. Transfers are very rarely nowadays a solid fee paid. They are incentivised and structured. Teams don't have the money to splurge up front.

Just a guess obviously, but I imagine, as it's still rumbling on, that the deal will be at a stage of ironing out the small differences in how the fee is structurted rather than the actual total value of the deal.

Obviously a selling club will want as much WONGA up front as possible, with the selling club wanting an incentivised offer. In Sunderlands case I wouldn't be suprised if a relatively large "X amount paid if Sunderland avoid relegation" would have been offered at the outset as it means they can avoid said payment if they do go down, but then also are happy to pay a large end-of-season fee if they do remain in the promised land.

I disagree. I'm CERTAIN Sunderland AND Bridcutt have absolutely NO IDEA what we are after. £2M bid turned down is ALL they know. Tony and co keep their cards VERY close to their respective chests.

 

[B.W.]

its not Gus that is buying him though is it
I am sure Gus would love to get him for a knock down price but its is up to Sunderland what they pay not Gus

True, but I'm sure Gus has a say in what is bid, it's just whether the Sunderland board agree to bid what Gus says he's worth:

Gus: "we should up the bid to £3M/£4M..."
Board: either "Yes" or "No".

 

[glasfryn]

True, but I'm sure Gus has a say in what is bid, it's just whether the Sunderland board agree to bid what Gus says he's worth:

Gus: "we should up the bid to £3M/£4M..."
Board: either "Yes" or "No".

FFS you know as much about what Sunderland's board are saying as well as whats going on at the Albion
which is probably nothing
why can't you /people in general wait until the inks dry on a contract.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I disagree. I'm CERTAIN Sunderland AND Bridcutt have absolutely NO IDEA what we are after. £2M bid turned down is ALL they know. Tony and co keep their cards VERY close to their respective chests.

I realise it's your opinion, but that's just not how transfers work. You have agents for us and agents for them and Liams agent. They will all know the figures being discussed.

If they didn't then it would be the single worst form of negotiations ever. How are you meant to negotatiate if no one discusses prices?

It's not like a game of football manager. Sunderland don't sit there and go "£2m? shall we bid £2m? Yeah". and then pick up the phone and get a simple "No".
And then sit there again and go hmmmm...£2.3m? What do you reckon?.

To show how complicated it is Man Utd's bid for Herrera in the summer went tits up when some 3rd party agents just invited themselves into the negotiations. Man Utd's accepted bid for Mata yesterday wasn't even made by their chief exec or club representatives...but instead by "intermediatries".

And yes, Liam will know what he is being valued at. He did in the summer as well.

 

[Commander]

I realise it's your opinion, but that's just not how transfers work. You have agents for us and agents for them and Liams agent. They will all know the figures being discussed.

If they didn't then it would be the single worst form of negotiations ever. How are you meant to negotatiate if no one discusses prices?

It's not like a game of football manager. Sunderland don't sit there and go "£2m? shall we bid £2m? Yeah". and then pick up the phone and get a simple "No".
And then sit there again and go hmmmm...£2.3m? What do you reckon?.

To show how complicated it is Man Utd's bid for Herrera in the summer went tits up when some 3rd party agents just invited themselves into the negotiations. Man Utd's accepted bid for Mata yesterday wasn't even made by their chief exec or club representatives...but instead by "intermediatries".

And yes, Liam will know what he is being valued at. He did in the summer as well.

This. And Gus and Tony must have discussed potential offers for Bridcutt when Gus was still here, so he must have a rough idea of what Bloom values him at.

 

[B.W.]

FFS you know as much about what Sunderland's board are saying as well as whats going on at the Albion
which is probably nothing
why can't you /people in general wait until the inks dry on a contract.

How don you think it works then Glasfryn? GUs has no say at all?

 

[B.W.]

I realise it's your opinion, but that's just not how transfers work. You have agents for us and agents for them and Liams agent. They will all know the figures being discussed.

If they didn't then it would be the single worst form of negotiations ever. How are you meant to negotatiate if no one discusses prices?

It's not like a game of football manager. Sunderland don't sit there and go "£2m? shall we bid £2m? Yeah". and then pick up the phone and get a simple "No".
And then sit there again and go hmmmm...£2.3m? What do you reckon?.

To show how complicated it is Man Utd's bid for Herrera in the summer went tits up when some 3rd party agents just invited themselves into the negotiations. Man Utd's accepted bid for Mata yesterday wasn't even made by their chief exec or club representatives...but instead by "intermediatries".

And yes, Liam will know what he is being valued at. He did in the summer as well.

I think you would be a very poor negotiator. IF you are selling, you NEVER give away your min price. Trust me, I used to do it as a job.

 

[glasfryn]

How don you think it works then Glasfryn? GUs has no say at all?

you tell me, you seem to know exactly whats said in the boardrooms of both clubs

 

[B.W.]

This. And Gus and Tony must have discussed potential offers for Bridcutt when Gus was still here, so he must have a rough idea of what Bloom values him at.

Any valuation will have been reevaluated under Oscar.

 

[Albumen]

Any valuation will have been reevaluated under Oscar.

Really? An expensive vase is an expensive vase, not matter who the owner is. And in this case, the coach doesn't even own the vase!

 

[B.W.]

you tell me, you seem to know exactly whats said in the boardrooms of both clubs

I certainly don't know what happens at Sunderland, but to think Gus has no say is, well, naive.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Really? An expensive vase is an expensive vase, not matter who the owner is. And in this case, the coach doesn't even own the vase!

The owner is Tony Bloom who hasn't changed.

 

[Albumen]

The owner is Tony Bloom who hasn't changed.

Like I said.