Sunday trading hours.

[Frutos]

The big supermarkets already open from 11-4 on Sunday's so it's not as big a change as people are making out. Small shops already have regular opening hours on sundays

Speaking as someone who works in retail management and who sees my staff costings budget cut every year as it is, I'd say that from my POV it's a bigger deal than you might expect.

I can't comment on how things are done in other companies but I can say for stone cold certain that if my store were asked to open an extra three hours a week (from the 11-5 we do now to 9-6, for example), the cost of paying a minimum of four staff for those periods of time, plus paying someone to come in an hour before opening to get things switched on and sorted out, plus half an hour afterwards to shut everything down, plus the cleaning staff, plus the increased P&H costs would mean that the standard of service we would be able to provide to our customers the rest of the week would be seriously dented.

Now of course you'd hope, given that the company I work for delivered over £100 million in pre-tax profit last year, that any change would be balanced by a commensurate increase in our store operating costs allowance, but I'd sadly not hold my breath.

On the plus side, it might be the kick up the arse I need to find a better job so really I ought to be all in favour.

 

[brightn'ove]

Speaking as someone who works in retail management and who sees my staff costings budget cut every year as it is, I'd say that from my POV it's a bigger deal than you might expect.

I can't comment on how things are done in other companies but I can say for stone cold certain that if my store were asked to open an extra three hours a week (from the 11-5 we do now to 9-6, for example), the cost of paying a minimum of four staff for those periods of time, plus paying someone to come in an hour before opening to get things switched on and sorted out, plus half an hour afterwards to shut everything down, plus the cleaning staff, plus the increased P&H costs would mean that the standard of service we would be able to provide to our customers the rest of the week would be seriously dented.

Now of course you'd hope, given that the company I work for delivered over £100 million in pre-tax profit last year, that any change would be balanced by a commensurate increase in our store operating costs allowance, but I'd sadly not hold my breath.

On the plus side, it might be the kick up the arse I need to find a better job so really I ought to be all in favour.

Fair play. Out of interest were you in this line of work during the Olympics when the govt temporarily lifted Sunday trading hours, how did that affect the budget for staff/increased profit due to opening later balance? Stores like tesco express and Sainsburys local are already open until 11pm on Sunday's, I imagine the way they work could be scaled to larger stores?

 

[Frutos]

Fair play. Out of interest were you in this line of work during the Olympics when the govt temporarily lifted Sunday trading hours, how did that affect the budget for staff/increased profit due to opening later balance?

I was, and in that instance we thankfully were provided extra costings on the basis of it being a one-off thing - it was a waste of time, however, because the store was deserted so we may as well not have bothered.

Much as I'd like to hope the same principle of extra costs would be the case were it to be made permanent, my 'spidey sense' tells me otherwise.

 

[Tricky Dicky]

No need for extra Sunday trading now. So many supermarkets are open 24/7 through the week that no matter what shift pattern you're working, or what family set up you've got, there are plenty of chances to go shopping without yet more Sunday trading.

This is not on religious grounds, just a ffs why can't people leave Sundays alone as a day that's slightly different from the rest of the week.

No. When I worked in London, I was getting up at 4:30, getting home after 19:00, I was just too f*cked to think about shopping then, so anytime during the week was out. Saturday mornings I generally had to sleep, just to catch up, so I had very few hours when I could physically get there.

I don't see why I shouldn't be able to shop any time on any day if shops want to sell to me.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Speaking as someone who works in retail management and who sees my staff costings budget cut every year as it is, I'd say that from my POV it's a bigger deal than you might expect.

I can't comment on how things are done in other companies but I can say for stone cold certain that if my store were asked to open an extra three hours a week (from the 11-5 we do now to 9-6, for example), the cost of paying a minimum of four staff for those periods of time, plus paying someone to come in an hour before opening to get things switched on and sorted out, plus half an hour afterwards to shut everything down, plus the cleaning staff, plus the increased P&H costs would mean that the standard of service we would be able to provide to our customers the rest of the week would be seriously dented.

Now of course you'd hope, given that the company I work for delivered over £100 million in pre-tax profit last year, that any change would be balanced by a commensurate increase in our store operating costs allowance, but I'd sadly not hold my breath.

On the plus side, it might be the kick up the arse I need to find a better job so really I ought to be all in favour.

I thought you once worked for Woolies, therefore you should know that retail operators opened with just 2 staff on occasion, they certainly never paid for staff to work before or after the shops opening hours either to open or close up (from my experience at least which was in a couple of the smaller stores a few years before they went under - i left about a year before they finally went bust)

I was, and in that instance we thankfully were provided extra costings on the basis of it being a one-off thing - it was a waste of time, however, because the store was deserted so we may as well not have bothered.

Much as I'd like to hope the same principle of extra costs would be the case were it to be made permanent, my 'spidey sense' tells me otherwise.

If they found no one was shopping before or after the previous opening hours, it's unlikely that a store would be forced to open (why would they if they are losing cash?) There may be a trial period to see if it worked but i suspect it's more likely to be successful in main shopping areas like Churchill Square than smaller retail zones

I'd imagine it would be a slow creep of extended opening hours rather than a big jump (get the preview shoppers being able to buy in that first 30 minutes, close slightly later rather than force a shop full of customers out, etc

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I wonder how many of those who don't agree with extended hours have gone to the pub or had a meal out after 4pm on a Sunday or maybe Christmas Day ?

 

[Frutos]

I thought you once worked for Woolies, therefore you should know that retail operators opened with just 2 staff on occasion, they certainly never paid for staff to work before or after the shops opening hours either to open or close up (from my experience at least which was in a couple of the smaller stores a few years before they went under - i left about a year before they finally went bust)

I did, but my current location could never be run that way - its simply too big.

If they found no one was shopping before or after the previous opening hours, it's unlikely that a store would be forced to open (why would they if they are losing cash?)

Taking Churchill Square as an example, if the centre is open then all the stores have to be, irrespective of individual profitability, as a condition of their tenancy.

 

[Frutos]

I would further suspect that, taking Churchill Square as an example, the quid pro quo to longer Sunday opening would be the end of later opening on Thursday, Friday and Saturday - shopping centres have to balance the costs the same as individual stores.

 

[meeching gull]

Well I have Fridays off so everything apart from the pub should be closed
Sunday is a meh day

 

[murraymints4brighton]

It will only work if companies provide extra staff costs to enable the longer hours to be covered.

From experience however, what I would expect to happen is that no increase would be given and so staffing levels would have to decrease elsewhere in the week to compensate.

Precisely. I have been working recently shadowing a regional manager for a multi-million pound company and I can share a degree of empathy with any staff who may have to compensate for the increased hours on a Sunday.

Its all very well and good keeping the shops open, but please be aware that in retail the 'suits' will push staff to the brink in order to open stores with no increase in pay and indeed as you state, it will be incredibly likely the stores hours for the business week would not increase either.

If they provide the extra staff then great but again, highly unlikely. Retail at the moment seems to be about simply opening the doors. The staff turnover for the company I work for is ridiculous and things like this will only increase that.

 

[beorhthelm]

It will only work if companies provide extra staff costs to enable the longer hours to be covered.

From experience however, what I would expect to happen is that no increase would be given and so staffing levels would have to decrease elsewhere in the week to compensate.

what a bizzare thing to say. shirley shops have to be staffed when open, if they dont have or cant get the staff for those hours, they wont open. many smaller/indpendent shops dont open on Sundays and Bank holidays. anyway, we're talking about extending the Sunday opening by a few hours.

as for the melodramatic its a step to 365/7 opening, why not? who would care about chocolate egg day other than a single digit % of the population? the Yule festival wouldnt likly see many shops open even if it were allowed as there's too strong a secular tradition.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is not on religious grounds, just a ffs why can't people leave Sundays alone as a day that's slightly different from the rest of the week.

if not on religious grounds, why not Friday or Tuesdays? why does a day have to be left alone?

 

[seagull_in_malaysia]

Why the hell shouldn't shops be able to trade on a Sunday? If you don't want to then don't. No need to stop everyone else.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I thought you once worked for Woolies, therefore you should know that retail operators opened with just 2 staff on occasion, they certainly never paid for staff to work before or after the shops opening hours either to open or close up (from my experience at least which was in a couple of the smaller stores a few years before they went under - i left about a year before they finally went bust)

I did, but my current location could never be run that way - its simply too big.

Wasn't Woolies one of the largest, if not the largest high street retailer in the country before it went bust

Taking Churchill Square as an example, if the centre is open then all the stores have to be, irrespective of individual profitability, as a condition of their tenancy.

I've been in there when some of the stores are open and others still shut. (Boxing day quite a few years ago for example)

When Next have their early opening for sales, are all the other stores forced to open that early too? (4am?) Or what about Debenhams when they stay open later for their blue cross sale or whatever they do?

No they don't, it's still up to the retailer and they are not forced by anyone.

 

[Gullflyinghigh]

I don't like the idea for no reason other than I can see staff on tills (for example) suddenly finding that they're being expected to work both days of a weekend to cover the gap in hours.

Thankfully, I've not worked in a supermarket for a long time but the pressure then to work Sundays and 'help out' was pretty endless. I never said yes because I liked the idea of actually seeing friends and family.

To be fair, as it was a Sunday, it was always double time to encourage people to work it. Can almost guarantee that'll vanish as soon as it becomes a normal working day.

 

[BLOCK F]

No big deal,bring it on,I say.
Not quite the same,but similar; cast you mind back when pubs had severely restricted opening hours: only open from 12 till 2 and 7 to 10.30 on a Sunday. Closed between 2.30 until 5.30 or even 6 during the week. At the time there was a bit of protest amongst various interested parties(I am not talking about the anti alcohol crew here),but it all settled down and generally works well.
Same will be for retail and the proposed changes are hardly earth shattering.

P.S. Wouldn't like to go back to the old pub hours now!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why the hell shouldn't shops be able to trade on a Sunday? If you don't want to then don't. No need to stop everyone else.

I see it as a sad indictment of modern life myself. An extra day to buy more shit we probably don't need and don't have time to buy during the week as we're commuting for over 2 hours a day.

 

[8ace]

Scrap the Jesus hours - let the market decide.

 

[Nibble]

Wasn't Woolies one of the largest, if not the largest high street retailer in the country before it went bust



I've been in there when some of the stores are open and others still shut. (Boxing day quite a few years ago for example)

When Next have their early opening for sales, are all the other stores forced to open that early too? (4am?) Or what about Debenhams when they stay open later for their blue cross sale or whatever they do?

No they don't, it's still up to the retailer and they are not forced by anyone.

I don't know what it's like now, not worked in CS for over a decade but when I was security manager at Virgin all stores definitely had to be open if the centre was open. There were odd exceptions such as the Next sale and Debenhams thing but as a rule if CS was open, all stores were obliged to be. This rarely made any difference as CS was open pretty much the same hours week in, week out but one of my things to do on a monthly basis was meet with CS management to get a list of any amended opening times, through Christmas etc and then organise staff and security accordingly.

 

[Black Rod]

If you don't want to do your shopping on a Sunday and want to spend it with your family, you can. If you want to go to church, you can. The change in law doesn't state you have to go shopping on a Sunday, it just gives you the option too. I believe it is called "greater freedom"