[Politics] Sunak's benefits shake up

[The Clamp]

You damn well know why I was having troubles logging on, so why ask? So incredibly patronising. Still a 'socialist' in the 1901 are you?

Why were you having issues logging on?

 

[The Fits]

Or go back to the other link I published...it still doesn't paint a great picture

Are half of British households a burden on the state? - Full Fact

"Half of Britain is a burden on the state," the Sunday Times reported over the weekend. A number of newspapers also reported the news that the majority …

fullfact.org

But what are the root causes?
Have the middle classes really become feckless benefit scum or are there very obvious and real causes?
Jobs, wages, tax, productivity, access to health care, cost of basic goods, growth, housing, access to public transport, cost of bills, access to outside space, access to exercise, standard of education, cost of education, sense of community, sense of self worth, food, anxiety around war and climate change.
This is a melting pot for a sick and unproductive population.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Another point of note here. Sickness days have increased post Covid, but unless you get admitted to hospital Covid does not exist anymore. It is real enough to hit plenty of people hard for a few days and some for much longer, but no testing no stats until you are so sick you are admitted to hospital, at which point I guess it is okay to take time off.

Indeed. We are having students getting Covid, and whereas they would have automatically get 2 weeks' extension just by saying 'Covid' last year, they now have to get a medical certificate. The problem is they cannot get one because they won't be going to see a doctor if they have Covid, they will be staying at home feeling unwell. Most don't have a positive test they can photo and email in, because they costs now, and who keeps spares? So we are having to decide, with no data, whether to allow the extension or not. This is supposedly governed by college policy, but policy has not caught up with current process.

 

[The Clamp]

Massive rise in middle aged women taking up smoking.

A direct response to stress I shouldn’t wonder.

Having to balance a household budget is a fricking nightmare in 2024.

Unless you’re Sunak and you can just ask your keeper/wife for another couple of thousand for lunch out.

 

[Cornwallboy]

Massive rise in middle aged women taking up smoking.

A direct response to stress I shouldn’t wonder.

Having to balance a household budget is a fricking nightmare in 2024.

Unless you’re Sunak and you can just ask your keeper/wife for another couple of thousand for lunch out.

Taking up smoking will great a great help in balancing the household budget!!!

 

[Uh_huh_him]

This message board is so left wing !

I'm not a Tory boy , I would probably vote labour at the next GE.

But I saw a stat the other day that showed a record 54.2% of people (36 million) now live in households which received more in benefits than they contributed in taxes, which is a little disturbing. Would be good to see the stats without pensioners.

It does feel like this country and especially the youth (yes I know they have it hard) are pretty work shy these days. Hard to recruit in retail for instance since Brexit.

Many of us in the over 50 bracket can remember a time when it was impossible to claim benefits if you were in work.
This lead us to assuming that benefit figures relate to people who are out of work.

Over the years that has changed, mainly because lower end wages have failed to keep up with the costs of living.
Much of this is due to the increased cost of private sector renting and the council housing sell off of the 80s.

There are a great many full-time employed people now, who qualify for Universal credit or housing benefit.

 

[Justice]

It’s not irrelevant, it’s most likely a major contributory factor to the figure. I agree it’s dire. As I say, companies should not (indirectly) receive benefits to prop them up. I’d abolish universal credit and let private businesses pay rates which attract the appropriate staff. If they can’t do this then they are unviable and should not be operating.

My other half works in retail nearly everyone who applies won’t work over 16 hrs as it affects their benefits mainly housing benefits.

 

[nicko31]

You are so condescending to those who happen to think differently to you.


It’s often the case with the very left wing of the party … they are tolerant of everyone except those that don’t agree with them!!

£8 billion a year on benefit fraud and 62% of people think benefit fraud is a problem.

Benefit fraud stands at around 1%. Sadly, many people's brains have been fried by the right wing press over the last few decades.

 

[Randy McNob]

 

[A1X]

Unfortunately this all plays to the people, and we see several of them on this thread, who think mental health issues are all just "chancers with nothing wrong with them" and the like, it's gutter politics trying to present itself as reasonable

 

[Peteinblack]

You are so condescending to those who happen to think differently to you.


It’s often the case with the Right-wing of the Conservative Party … they are tolerant of everyone except those that don’t agree with them!!

£8 billion a year on benefit fraud and 62% of people think benefit fraud is a problem.

£18 billion a year in Housing Benefit into the pockets of profiteering landlords.
£ 35 billion (approximately) is lost each year through tax evasion - https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7948/
38% of Universal Credit claimants are in-work, but their employers pay them poverty wages.

But you're fretting about the £8 billion lost in benefit fraud - I certainly don't defend fraudsters, but as you're citing the sums involved, I think context and perspective are important - to me, employers paying poverty wages (knowing their staff can claim top-up benefits), landlords charging high rents which are then reimbursed via Housing Benefit, and millionaires and corporations evading £ billions in taxes, cost far, far, more than people fiddling the system.

Also, so what if 62% of people think Benefit Fraud is a problem? It's self-perpetuating; the Tory press constantly runs stories about Benefit Fraud - "Outrage as family with 18 kids demand bigger council house" or "Fury as 17-year old has 4th child in 4 years, but doesn't know who any of their fathers are" - whipping-up the anger of their readers, who then applaud when the Tories announce yet another crack-down on 'Benefit cheats'. These crack-downs are announced 2-3 times per year, but the salivating Tory fan-base never says "Hold-on, why have none of the other crack-downs worked?"

Of course, a lot of the anti-welfare attitude is based on pure snobbery; looking down with a sense of smug self-superiority on the poor and the unemployed - "we don't like those sort of people, and want to see them punished - permanently."

It's all part of the Tory strategy of:

a) punching-down (crap on the people below you to make yourself feel better about yourself).
b) perpetuating divide-and-rule by 'othering' different minorities, against whom people are encouraged to target their frustrations - this diverts attention from the role that politicians, and the economic top 1%, have played in impoverishing and asset-stripping this country, paying themselves £ millions in salaries and dividends, and selling-off our industries overseas.

Incidentally, concern about 'scroungers' is ages-old; back in the 19th Century when the Poor Laws were first introduced, there was constant concern about the "Sturdy Beggar" who milked the system.

 

[The Fits]

From the Guardian...

There are 1.9 million people on a waiting list for mental health treatment in England, meaning the treatment they should be able to access through the NHS is not currently available to them.

On what planet is the government swapping payments for services and support?!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

My other half works in retail nearly everyone who applies won’t work over 16 hrs as it affects their benefits mainly housing benefits.

At £9.50 an hour who could afford to pay rent?

 

[MJsGhost]

£8 billion a year on benefit fraud and 62% of people think benefit fraud is a problem.

The Citizens Advice Bureau on benefit fraud v tax fraud. Allowing for mistakes from the DWP in overpayments.

Myth-busting: the real figures on benefit fraud

Benefit fraud is a problem, however it seems to get more attention than other fraud within our economy. Here are the facts about benefit fraud and their position within the UK’s finances.

www.cas.org.uk

That's a very old article TB. (2013)

The latest (that I can find) figure is just over £6bn in benefit fraud. The £8bn mentioned incorrectly earlier in the thread includes payments made in error.

Fraud and error in the benefit system Financial Year Ending (FYE) 2023

www.gov.uk

The point still stands of course - there are much bigger and better targets to go after that would gain more tax (that should be being paid) and won't demonise the poor.

 

[Peteinblack]

One other point which is overlooked when 'crack-downs' on welfare are regularly announced, and give Daily Mail readers multiple-orgasms, is that cutting payments to claimants obviously means they have to reduce their weekly spending - which then means that local shops and other retailers will sell less, see their profits fall, and eventually close-down. This will then result in even more people claiming Benefits in the medium-term.

There really is a woeful lack of critical thinking in this country, and an inability (or unwillingness) to see the bigger picture or look beyond the latest headline.

 

[The Fits]

At £9.50 an hour who could afford to pay rent?

I pay some staff (pubs and bars) 26k (non management) and they can barely afford rent. It's bleak.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

£18 billion a year in Housing Benefit into the pockets of profiteering landlords.
£ 35 billion (approximately) is lost each year through tax evasion - https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7948/
38% of Universal Credit claimants are in-work, but their employers pay them poverty wages.

But you're fretting about the £8 billion lost in benefit fraud - I certainly don't defend fraudsters, but as you're citing the sums involved, I think context and perspective are important - to me, employers paying poverty wages (knowing their staff can claim top-up benefits), landlords charging high rents which are then reimbursed via Housing Benefit, and millionaires and corporations evading £ billions in taxes, cost far, far, more than people fiddling the system.

Also, so what if 62% of people think Benefit Fraud is a problem? It's self-perpetuating; the Tory press constantly runs stories about Benefit Fraud - "Outrage as family with 18 kids demand bigger council house" or "Fury as 17-year old has 4th child in 4 years, but doesn't know who any of their fathers are" - whipping-up the anger of their readers, who then applaud when the Tories announce yet another crack-down on 'Benefit cheats'. These crack-downs are announced 2-3 times per year, but the salivating Tory fan-base never says "Hold-on, why have none of the other crack-downs worked?"

Of course, a lot of the anti-welfare attitude is based on pure snobbery; looking down with a sense of smug self-superiority on the poor and the unemployed - "we don't like those sort of people, and want to see them punished - permanently."

It's all part of the Tory strategy of:

a) punching-down (crap on the people below you to make yourself feel better about yourself).
b) perpetuating divide-and-rule by 'othering' different minorities, against whom people are encouraged to target their frustrations - this diverts attention from the role that politicians, and the economic top 1%, have played in impoverishing and asset-stripping this country, paying themselves £ millions in salaries and dividends, and selling-off our industries overseas.

Incidentally, concern about 'scroungers' is ages-old; back in the 19th Century when the Poor Laws were first introduced, there was constant concern about the "Sturdy Beggar" who milked the system.

This!

There is also an estimated £19bn of unclaimed benefit , due to the complexity of the system and the shame associated with being on benefits.
UK -Unclaimed benefit

There are however far fewer billionaires who are missing out on the legal loopholes available to evade tax.

And yet we're still talking about the "scroungers" as the problem

 

[Denis]

Due to the tax threshold being frozen for quite a while even modest pensions are being taxed. My annual income from State Pension and a small private pension is less than £16K and I pay income tax.

I’m exactly the same, small private pension, similar annual income and having to pay tax, bl**dy annoying.

 

[Cornwallboy]

Why were you having issues logging on?

You know why.

Why were you having issues logging on?

To 'discourage' me from posting on here.

 

[The Clamp]

Sunak has got a f***ing nerve….

MPs clock off early as length of Commons work day hits record low​

https://www.ft.com/content/fef202b8-576d-429d-8136-cbb6db52f0f0





The working day for MPs in the House of Commons chamber has been shorter on average this parliamentary session than in any other in the past quarter century, according to a Financial Times analysis.

MPs clock off early as length of Commons work day hits record low

Rishi Sunak accused of presiding over a ‘zombie parliament’

www.ft.com