[Politics] Sunak's benefits shake up

[The Clamp]

There is no "movement" to abuse the welfare system — you added that to whip up your own indignation. But there are certainly plenty of people who play the mental health card to get time off work. I’ve done it myself, and I personally know several people who’ve done it — especially in the public sector and (perhaps surprisingly) in big corporates where these days, HR departments are scared of damaging their reputation by seeming to be unsympathetic. I’d be astonished if you knew no one who’d ever been in that position. Yes, I was genuinely unhappy by having a shit boss and a dead-end job, but nothing that required several weeks off through 'acute stress' which my GP was helpful enough to label it.

The trouble with my reprehensible behaviour is that it conceals the genuine pain and anxiety of those who really do need emotional support and financial assistance — and there are plenty, no doubt. You have to work out how to filter out people like me to maximise resources for those truly suffering. Not only do people with my shoddy morals draw cash and expertise away from those who need it but tragically, we help to create that perception that "everyone's at it" which is very unfair on those who are really struggling.

Perhaps the doctor recognised acute stress that you were in denial of?

Hence why they should be in charge and not some government lackey, employed to keep costs down.

Because doctors know about medical things.

 

[ROSM]

This message board is so left wing !

I'm not a Tory boy , I would probably vote labour at the next GE.

But I saw a stat the other day that showed a record 54.2% of people (36 million) now live in households which received more in benefits than they contributed in taxes, which is a little disturbing. Would be good to see the stats without pensioners.

It does feel like this country and especially the youth (yes I know they have it hard) are pretty work shy these days. Hard to recruit in retail for instance since Brexit.

Any chance of naming the source of this? Surely you remember this from when you did your degree?

If it's based anywhere near 55 Tufton street then you lose 5 marks for a poor quality source reference

 

[The Clamp]

This message board is so left wing !

I'm not a Tory boy , I would probably vote labour at the next GE.

But I saw a stat the other day that showed a record 54.2% of people (36 million) now live in households which received more in benefits than they contributed in taxes, which is a little disturbing. Would be good to see the stats without pensioners.

It does feel like this country and especially the youth (yes I know they have it hard) are pretty work shy these days. Hard to recruit in retail for instance since Brexit.

Is it a particularly left wing trait to want people who are ill to receive the right treatment?

Pretty a-political viewpoint, Shirley?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I would bet a lot of money that tax avoidance costs the state much much more. Hopefully the chart I just posted showing that a few anecdotes about young people being workshy are just that.

Nothing wrong with tax avoidance. We're right in the middle of ISA season. ISAs (introduced by Labour under Blair) allow people to save up to £20K a year without being taxed on interest, dividends, capital growth etc. All perfectly legal. Same with pension funds which allow tax-efficient savings. If you mean tax evasion which is unlawfully hiding money from the Revenue to avoid declaring it and paying tax, then sure, we agree totally.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m neither lazy or foolish - I simply disagree with you

You’ve rather made my point there

You come across as arrogant

If you imagine you have made your point that benefit claimants are benefit fraudsters, and that Dawyne also has a point and is not a troll, OK mate.
You seem to have a very low threshold for self-congratulation

 

[WATFORD zero]

Just a quick question

Have the Woke/lefties taken the same place as the EU in the immigrants/benefit scroungers/single parents/minorities/teachers,doctors,nurses blame circle or have they changed the order as well.

Or is it just the ever increasing speed as this cabal heads into oblivion. I am impressed that they still manage to land a few though

Look over there, they're the problem

 

[Peteinblack]

Too many doctors are issuing sick notes so Sunak wants to strip their right to do so.

Those same doctors, presumably, who face being struck-off if they are arrested on a Climate Change protest.

Our wonderful free-speech loving, anti-Cancel Culture, Tory government.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Nothing wrong with tax avoidance. We're right in the middle of ISA season. ISAs (introduced by Labour under Blair) allow people to save up to £20K a year without being taxed on interest, dividends, capital growth etc. All perfectly legal. Same with pension funds which allow tax-efficient savings. If you mean tax evasion which is unlawfully hiding money from the Revenue to avoid declaring it and paying tax, then sure, we agree totally.

Indeed.

But I think you realise he meant tax fraud, not legal avoidance. I thought I was pedantic

 

[ROSM]

I wonder if Infosys will be bidding for the contract to supply the fit for work assessment.

As in all walks of life we should follow the money here.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

You mean like ATOS for PIP or Capita in general. Yep, that worked well, not !

ATOS were ridiculous. I had a physical condition where I was signed off work by my doctor and with a consultant's recommendation. As I was working for the Civil Service, there are procedures to go through. Incidentally, I was covered by sick pay from work rather than benefits.
Part of the procedure was that I had to have an interview with ATOS.
When I got there, it was a nurse who interviewed me, putting details into a computer. The nurse wasn't qualified to overrule my GP and especially not the consultant, so it was a box ticking exercise.

Now, that was a waste of money.

 

[Eeyore]

Here's an irony. I've have had mental health issues for 16 years but have been determined to work. I work from home and am very well respected in my job not least because of a 'can do' attitude (this really is ironic as I write it when the events of this policy are discussed). I have reasonable adjustments due to not being able travel sometimes etc. All good.

So I'm in work and paying me taxes. Recently I spoke to the doctor about an issue that I was determined wouldn't keep me off work and felt could be resolved in part through a specific counseling service the NHS provides and has done before.

No can do, says the doctor. The government have taken away the funding.

 

[The Clamp]

They are advertising on indeed for “fit to work” assessors.

So far, the only qualification you seem to require is to live near Worthing.

Bodes well for the mental health assessors, doesn’t it.

 

[ROSM]

Nothing wrong with tax avoidance. We're right in the middle of ISA season. ISAs (introduced by Labour under Blair) allow people to save up to £20K a year without being taxed on interest, dividends, capital growth etc. All perfectly legal. Same with pension funds which allow tax-efficient savings. If you mean tax evasion which is unlawfully hiding money from the Revenue to avoid declaring it and paying tax, then sure, we agree totally.

The ISA which followed the TESSA (tax exempt special savings account) and launched by John Major in his only budget as Chancellor. There is nothing wrong in offering tax breaks to stimulate saving/investment. There are however issues with schemes that allow taxable income or indeed tax due to be hidden. Some call it avoidance and some call it evasion.

 

[dwayne]

Any chance of naming the source of this? Surely you remember this from when you did your degree?

If it's based anywhere near 55 Tufton street then you lose 5 marks for a poor quality source reference

The ONS !

 

[CheeseRolls]

This message board is so left wing !

I'm not a Tory boy , I would probably vote labour at the next GE.

But I saw a stat the other day that showed a record 54.2% of people (36 million) now live in households which received more in benefits than they contributed in taxes, which is a little disturbing. Would be good to see the stats without pensioners.

It does feel like this country and especially the youth (yes I know they have it hard) are pretty work shy these days. Hard to recruit in retail for instance since Brexit.

This is a huge opportunity for radical change. As usual you can't make an omelette without breaking an egg and there will always be winners and losers. You do realise that you can be both in full time employment and receiving benefits?

Here's one way this could be addressed.
1 Significantly raise the minimum wage, reducing the benefits claimed.
2 As this will push the costs onto businesses significantly reduce business rates on properties (helping the High Street)
3 This will hit local government finances hard, which are already under severe stress, so increase central government funding, based on savings in the welfare budget.
4 If a government has a big enough majority it could also tackle the huge inequity in Council Tax raising. The current banding system is massively outdated. A rebanding exercise would largely place the burden on those best able to pay more. (Note I would expect to do very badly personally out of this one).

 

[The Clamp]

The ISA which followed the TESSA (tax exempt special savings account) and launched by John Major in his only budget as Chancellor. There is nothing wrong in offering tax breaks to stimulate saving/investment. There are however issues with schemes that allow taxable income or indeed tax due to be hidden. Some call it avoidance and some call it evasion.

If you’re a billionaire, it’s avoidance.

If you’re on £25k a year, it’s evasion.

Pretty sure that how it works.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This message board is so left wing !

I'm not a Tory boy , I would probably vote labour at the next GE.

But I saw a stat the other day that showed a record 54.2% of people (36 million) now live in households which received more in benefits than they contributed in taxes, which is a little disturbing. Would be good to see the stats without pensioners.

It does feel like this country and especially the youth (yes I know they have it hard) are pretty work shy these days. Hard to recruit in retail for instance since Brexit.

Would we good to also see the stats without universal credit as well. You can’t point your finger at those who actually work but have such low income it needs topping up.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Yes, fine.

So you agree with Sunk that someone in a new quango should have overridden the GP who signed you off sick?

Yes, people with genuine problems need support. But who decides if they have genuine problems? Sunk is proposing it not be a medic, but some new, as yet undefined body of assessors. Like loss adjusters.

And the reason for all this is exactly what I alluded to - a made-up 'movement' playing 'the mental health card' as you put it.

Playing the mental health card may well be what you did, but the term is pejorative and used by gammon to label anyone with a genuine mental health issue.

I rather shyly admitted to my sister in law about my issues a couple of years ago (I have mentioned then before and won't bore you with the details, sufficed to say I have never been a scrounger and sponged off the tax payer) and she accused me of playing the mental health card. Nice.

No, not nice. f***ing offensive.

And you didn't play the mental health card. You lied and defrauded the system And now you think Sunk should make up some madcap scheme to stop people like you doing the same thing again? Crikey.

I played the system, definitely, though I bristle a bit at 'lying and defrauding'. I spoke to my GP truthfully about how pissed off I was at work, hoping he’d sign me off for a while which he did. I couldn’t have complained if instead, he'd advised me to take more exercise and look for another job which was the real solution I arrived at myself within a few months.

I don’t have an opinion on the other stuff, and that’s not what I wanted to comment on. I don’t know what the proposals are and am not interested enough to research them. I also don’t like childish nicknames for politicians. You can be quite abusive, but get defensive when you’re challenged.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The Citizens Advice Bureau on benefit fraud v tax fraud. Allowing for mistakes from the DWP in overpayments.

Myth-busting: the real figures on benefit fraud

Benefit fraud is a problem, however it seems to get more attention than other fraud within our economy. Here are the facts about benefit fraud and their position within the UK’s finances.

www.cas.org.uk

 

[WATFORD zero]

Any chance of naming the source of this? Surely you remember this from when you did your degree?

If it's based anywhere near 55 Tufton street then you lose 5 marks for a poor quality source reference

The ONS !

The stat that you posted and @ROSM quoted was straight from 55 Tufton Street as I pointed out here