[Misc] Suggestions to save energy this winter…

[Weststander]

I hope this isn’t wandering too off topic
..but I have a Santandar 123 lite account (other bank accounts are available)..,it does have a £2 monthly charge ..but offers cash back on gas/elec bills along with mobile, broadband, council tax and water bill …I use it purely for bill paying via an app…every little helps right

On this wider financial aspect, cut unnecessary expenditure, have a look at what's going out on bank and credit card statements. Sometimes rip-off items under the radar on continuous payment, which might occur annually.

This year we've saved over a grand by stopping; Sky Sprort/BTSports/Sky Movies on Virgin and Netflix (2 users).

For a paid up mobile, don't ignore the texts from your mobile company when they mention a usage contract is coming to an end. Call their customers services, in our experience they automatically offer a much reduced monthly data cost.

 

[marcos3263]

A fairly obvious saving can be had on mobile phones.

I rock a Samsung s10+ . As a former flag ship model its pretty jolly good so I haven't upgraded to the S20, S21 or S22 which I am sure all better but in small increments.

I paid it off early so I could get out of contract and I negotiated a sim only deal with O2 at £6 for 15gb data and unlimited calls. plus as a bonus 3 months free Disney + which we binged watched everything we wanted.

I was paying £28 a month for 5gb

I appreciate I am old and don't need to compete with friends for the latest handset but realistically they all broadly look and do the same now anyway.

Imagine the savings on a Onsom Phine!!!

Im binning Amazon prime as soon as I finish The Boys and have downloaded Loop on Bozza's advice. early indicators is that our shower is a big energy user - may been to revert to a flannel wash in the sink.

 

[Fungus]

Johnson has now given us all the advice we have needed for saving energy.
Yet again getting the big decisions right.

If you have an old kettle buy a new one for £20 and you will save £10 a year in energy costs.

Just brilliant, we are surely going to miss these types of big decisions from Monday.

But £10 off a £3,000 bill is surely a must.

No doubt some gloomster will be along and say why not put the hot water into a flask to save on reboils, or reducing the amount of water in the kettle, but come on spend £20 to wait two years to break even, its a brilliant idea.

Just the short of sales pitch that the Shopping Channel needs.

You’d be better off buying some descaler tablets for the kettle if you live in a hard water area.

 

[pearl]

Get it patented, quick. You could reinvent the shell suit with your own range of crisis wear. Hey, that would be a good brand name - Crisis.

I'd like to offer you all the money, but I want 40% of the business.

I'm a retired loafer, far too busy doing nuthin' to run a business

 

[Fungus]

I hope this isn’t wandering too off topic
..but I have a Santandar 123 lite account (other bank accounts are available)..,it does have a £2 monthly charge ..but offers cash back on gas/elec bills along with mobile, broadband, council tax and water bill …I use it purely for bill paying via an app…every little helps right

I believe they’ve increased the energy cashback to 4% for the next two months. I can’t find the notification, and it might not apply to new accounts, though.

 

[Audax]

You’d be better off buying some descaler tablets for the kettle if you live in a hard water area.

Lemons. Lemon juice is a fantastic descaler for kettles. Don't know the exact ratios, but you put some lemon juice in with a full fill of water and boil. Depending on how bad the scaling is might need to do a few times, but it will do the job. We always have lemons on the shopping list when staying in an Airbnb specifically for descaling the kettle (wasn't needed for the last place, but has been very useful in the past).

 

[Deleted member 37369]

I think someone posted about this before, but it's not the smart meter that could create a neurotic mindset, it's the little monitoring device that comes with some installations. I say "some" as my mum has a smart meter but doesn't seem to have the little monitor.

And I say "could" because we've had a smart meter for years and I've never paid any attention to it. As far as I knew all it did was send through our meter readings to our supplier. Why should we care one way or another about that?

But, now it is proving valuable as it's allowing me, via the Loop and Hugo apps, to look at our usage and try to figure out what is costing what. Of course I knew that whacking the oven on to cook a lasagne costs more than turning the light on etc but beyond that, and by your definition, I certainly was a bit thick when it came to this stuff. And I guess I was because we've been in the fortunate position where energy bills were not an issue for us. In the big scheme of the household budget, electricity costs were quite some way down the list. Gas was more prominent, but that's always been easier to work out: when the boiler is on it's costing money.

Because we have a smart meter I can jump back to February 2021 in the Hugo/Loop apps and look at the corresponding days last year and see we were averaging around 10kWh per day. Since we've become focused on this over the last week or so we've got that down to around 6.5-7.0 kWh/day.

Our smart meter and Loop/Hugo apps are also proving useful in calculating what we should be paying as a sense check against what our energy supplier is telling us. As I mentioned in a previous post, our son is now back with us and our granddaughter 3/4 days a week. Understandably that will increase our energy usage ... something our energy supplier won't be calculating for at the moment. I can now track current daily kWhs versus what we were using and calculate what my monthly payment should be based on current tariff (which will change again 1st October etc etc).

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Interesting, I wasn’t aware of those, but will check it out. Our annual service is due soon, so will ask for recommendations. A great idea if the price is right.

Interested to hear any comments/suggestions from those that have them or work in the 'industry'.

We have/use Alexa and Siri for lights, music and also adjusting temperature setting on our main thermostat ... but our rads with TRVs only have the old fashioned ones where you set it to a number. I looked previously at smart TRVs but thought they were pretty expensive and wasn't sure how long it might take to recover cost ... or if there were any other real advantages.

So views welcomed

EDIT: My smart thermostat is Google Nest - so I guess TRV needs to be compatible.

 

[Fungus]

Lemons. Lemon juice is a fantastic descaler for kettles. Don't know the exact ratios, but you put some lemon juice in with a full fill of water and boil. Depending on how bad the scaling is might need to do a few times, but it will do the job. We always have lemons on the shopping list when staying in an Airbnb specifically for descaling the kettle (wasn't needed for the last place, but has been very useful in the past).

Even better! I live in a soft water area now, and glad I don’t have to worry about it!

 

[LamieRobertson]

I believe they’ve increased the energy cashback to 4% for the next two months. I can’t find the notification, and it might not apply to new accounts, though.

Yes they have ..but like you I do t know if it’s for new accounts

 

[Comrade Sam]

I have a new plan. Connect up all the morons on pelaton bikes to the national grid. Then the online motivational speaker can shout things like 'Come on Dave in Somerset, keep it up and we heat 5 more old ladies homes!'
My other plan was to put fossil fuel company executives on the fire.

 

[phoenix]

Can anyone recommend a device to measure usage without a smart meter?

Owl meter (electric) it can be set to high -low energy cost etc. I sit there and it shoots up then realise i'm putting a timer on hot water to heat up on cheaper rate electricity. Simple things like i have my tv and virgin running whilst im on internet (pc) used for gaming as well so i now turn tv virgin off and run sky sports on laptop. saves me £15 a month amazing.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

https://davidicke.com/tag/smart-meters/

Believe any of that and you will need some extra tin foil for the helmets.

 

[Rowdey]

Why is it only combi boilers that benefit from this, and not all condensing boilers? I understand why it could be more of a benefit with a combi.

Think you've answered it yourself, but;

Combi's run two temp internally - HW and CH separately.

Heat only (aka Open vent/Standard boilers) only make 1 loop of heated water and it gets externally diverted to make CH or HW (in a cylinder) so cant (out of the box/easily..) run two temps.

System boilers are similar to above but Viessmann/Vaillants have '4 pipe' tech which does allow for two temps flows.

 

[Rowdey]

Interested to hear any comments/suggestions from those that have them or work in the 'industry'.

We have/use Alexa and Siri for lights, music and also adjusting temperature setting on our main thermostat ... but our rads with TRVs only have the old fashioned ones where you set it to a number. I looked previously at smart TRVs but thought they were pretty expensive and wasn't sure how long it might take to recover cost ... or if there were any other real advantages.

So views welcomed

EDIT: My smart thermostat is Google Nest - so I guess TRV needs to be compatible.

Personally I've got Drayton Wiser in my own house (freebie with training)- It works enough to stop my wife heating the whole house when only she works from home, and although i find the app doesn't want to work away from home (prob my fault ) it's saved me quite a bit.

12 months ago I fitted a full vaillant smart TRV system for client - cost approx £1500 for kit alone. This is his response:

It's definitely had an impact on gas - we spent £300 in Dec 2020 alone on gas, let alone electric. This year I think our total spend for December between gas and electric was around £160 - granted there was a mild week in there and Christmas, but nevertheless it's come down significantly. Having some occasional issues with Vaillant's web servers going down, but the TRVs themselves stay on their normal schedule - have just found it tricky to boost individual rooms from time to time (normally on the weekend - probably software being deployed / updated their end!)
Also hooked it up to the Octopus REST API so that I can scrape the exact smart meter data

The last line will mean more to some people on this this thread than me..!

 

[Deleted member 37369]

Personally I've got Drayton Wiser in my own house (freebie with training)- It works enough to stop my wife heating the whole house when only she works from home, and although i find the app doesn't want to work away from home (prob my fault ) it's saved me quite a bit.

12 months ago I fitted a full vaillant smart TRV system for client - cost approx £1500 for kit alone. This is his response:

It's definitely had an impact on gas - we spent £300 in Dec 2020 alone on gas, let alone electric. This year I think our total spend for December between gas and electric was around £160 - granted there was a mild week in there and Christmas, but nevertheless it's come down significantly. Having some occasional issues with Vaillant's web servers going down, but the TRVs themselves stay on their normal schedule - have just found it tricky to boost individual rooms from time to time (normally on the weekend - probably software being deployed / updated their end!)
Also hooked it up to the Octopus REST API so that I can scrape the exact smart meter data

The last line will mean more to some people on this this thread than me..!

Thanks for info

Wow ... that is a huge outlay! How on earth did your client use £300 in gas in December 2020?!!!

I'm thinking about trying one or two to start with - but I do need to make sure they work with my current setup.

Is it easy to just remove old TRVs by unscrewing them and replacing them with the smart ones?

EDIT: Sorry ... another question if that's OK? I have a three rads downstairs (house is 3 story) that don't have TRVs ... radiator is either on or off and I think we were told that when the heating is on they should be left on Originally we had a boiler with a separate hot water tank ... but now have a Combi and no tank (so not sure if that makes a difference?)! Is that correct we should leave them on ... and can they be changed to have TRVs??

 

[Rowdey]

Thanks for info

Wow ... that is a huge outlay! How on earth did your client use £300 in gas in December 2020?!!!

I'm thinking about trying one or two to start with - but I do need to make sure they work with my current setup.

Is it easy to just remove old TRVs by unscrewing them and replacing them with the smart ones?

EDIT: Sorry ... another question if that's OK? I have a three rads downstairs (house is 3 story) that don't have TRVs ... radiator is either on or off and I think we were told that when the heating is on they should be left on Originally we had a boiler with a separate hot water tank ... but now have a Combi and no tank (so not sure if that makes a difference?)! Is that correct we should leave them on ... and can they be changed to have TRVs??

In no order:

Yes, while it's easy to remove the heads and refit/pair, you also have a receiver to replace existing programmer, and unless you are competent at boiler wiring will need someone to do that.

What TRV's do you have.. Picking on Drayton wiser, they supply converters for standard 3/4 thread and the rarer Danfoss style.

What boiler and programmer do you already have ?

We usually/used to leave one hallway rad not on a TRV, so that the system can still circulate/cool down if all the other TRV's shut down, and the hallway was ideal, but some boilers have a built in bypass, or more often the Towel rail (TR) has manual valves open anyway and that can be the bypass instead.

I prefer the TR route as the hall is not a 'living' room and should be one of the last rads to 'come on' after living rooms/bedrooms etc

 

[Deleted member 37369]

In no order:

Yes, while it's easy to remove the heads and refit/pair, you also have a receiver to replace existing programmer, and unless you are competent at boiler wiring will need someone to do that.

What TRV's do you have.. Picking on Drayton wiser, they supply converters for standard 3/4 thread and the rarer Danfoss style.

What boiler and programmer do you already have ?

We usually/used to leave one hallway rad not on a TRV, so that the system can still circulate/cool down if all the other TRV's shut down, and the hallway was ideal, but some boilers have a built in bypass, or more often the Towel rail (TR) has manual valves open anyway and that can be the bypass instead.

I prefer the TR route as the hall is not a 'living' room and should be one of the last rads to 'come on' after living rooms/bedrooms etc

I appreciate the reply

Our current/old TRVs are Myson (?)

Boiler was installed appx 2 years ago - Worcester Bosch Greenstar 36CDi Compact Combi

It's connected to a Google Nest Learning Thermostat - I was hoping to get TRVs that would just pair with Google Nest if possible without having to connect anything else.

We've recently had out bathroom and ensuite renovated - so they now have towel rail radiators with manual valves, leaving the option of putting TRVs on the rads in out dining room and hallway.

EDIT: Just been doing a bit more research and it doesn't look as though there's anything that is compatible with Google Nest ... or at least I can't find anything!!

 

[Baldseagull]

Think you've answered it yourself, but;

Combi's run two temp internally - HW and CH separately.

Heat only (aka Open vent/Standard boilers) only make 1 loop of heated water and it gets externally diverted to make CH or HW (in a cylinder) so cant (out of the box/easily..) run two temps.

System boilers are similar to above but Viessmann/Vaillants have '4 pipe' tech which does allow for two temps flows.

They still though have a return temperature that if it is too high is not going to allow the condensing to occur. If I turn my cylinder stat down to 50 degrees and run the boiler at 60 degrees, I should get more out of the condensing heat recovery than if I ran it at 70 to heat a tank to 60 degrees shouldn't I?

 

[Rowdey]

They still though have a return temperature that if it is too high is not going to allow the condensing to occur. If I turn my cylinder stat down to 50 degrees and run the boiler at 60 degrees, I should get more out of the condensing heat recovery than if I ran it at 70 to heat a tank to 60 degrees shouldn't I?

I'm, not following your Q - 'They' ?

Ref 50 deg cylinder - yes you can do that but under approx 55 degC is a good temp for legionella/bacteria growth, so we keep above to kill it off. Some boilers and heat pumps have a weekly anti legionella program built in to do this.

The other side to this with heat only/system (single temp) boilers is that rads in your house are currently designed for 70deg flow temp. A room with heat loss of say 1kw should have a rad with output of 1kw+; Once you start dropping the flow temp, that rad doesn't give out 1kw; at 50deg flow temp it's more like 500w and a probability your room will be cold in winter.