[Politics] Suggestions for what an incoming Labour government should do, once it has blagged its way in

[ManOfSussex]

@ManOfSussex

But what is the “burning issue”? Get elected or you’ll be “fired”…

I'm trying to help you out here, mate. You're in danger of losing the safest Conservative seat in the country. Get a grip.

 

[happypig]

Well, where we can agree is for the short term let’s get the Tories out. And the only option to do to that is Starmer’s Labour (a bit like “Wayne Rooney’s Birmingham” )

I am very surprised by so many Labour supporters being anti Starmer when it means having a Labour government. Very strange to me.

I, to my eternal regret, voted for Corbyn to be leader and I find Starmer to be a bit to right-leaning, but I'd rather a centerist Labour government that any Tory one. There are some in the Cult of Compo, though, who would rather be pure in opposition than pragmatic in government.

-Nationalise water and trains. Both are absolute dogshit systems that help no one other than company shareholders. They're supposed to be public services. I don't care how much it costs it'll be worth it in the long run.

&

Re-nationalisation of any sold off amenity will be very difficult though. Going to cost a fortune to pay of all the foreign companies that make good profits here for their shareholders abroad. I agree it is the right thing to do as I think not one privatised utility is cheaper or more effective since being privatised. but....

That one's easy(ish); tie them down with regulation and taxation (ie shareholder dividends in businesses deemed "national infrastructure" taxed at 101%) so that the share price plummets, then re-nationalise for pennies. Shareholders, your investments can go down as well as up.

 

[HalfaSeatOn]

Just working towards fact based decision making and away from conspiratorial, culture wars would be a start. Anything that obliterates the Tory right wing would be good so an electoral system that encourages collaboration, centre left alliance and a hate tax placed on the Daily Mail.

 

[happypig]

I don't think that soaking people who can't afford to buy their own home, as a business, is morally acceptable. Some years ago I met a bloke in Macclesfield who owned a house someone I knew was renting. He had crossed an event horizon whereby he was earning so much money from his rentals he was buying more and more new properties, with no end to this in sight. He was buying houses in new 'estates' of the sort we see springing up everywhere. It strikes me that this is a lovely self-sustaining racket, enabled by the fact that house prices are out of the reach of so many. It is a reversal of the gains working people made after the war up to the late 1970s, when people like my dad, a humble GPO engineer, was able to buy a bungalow in Rottingdean, and eventually scale up to a 3 bed semi in Portslade. A house that I could afford to buy only after working 30 years as a university lecturer.

If there is a housing 'crisis' in this country, then rather than it being due to illegal immigrants, it is due to this little racket.

I could be persuaded to think again, however. Do you think the rental sector is working well, and providing a satisfactory outcome? I suppose it could be argued that people who can't afford to buy a property and have to sink £1000 a month in rent are simply getting what they deserve, for not being smart enough to get the sort of job that would put them in bricks and mortar. And at least they have somewhere nice to rent, and I should probably just jog on and forget all about it. If, on the other hand, you think the rental sector does not work well, how can it be fixed?

This could be sorted by extending the "Right to Buy" scheme to private renters; If you've been paying someone else's mortgage for 20 years, you should get some benefit.
As for the feller in Macclesfield (and thousands like him), if he goes bust, f..k him, the bloody leech.

As an aside, I might well have known your dad, having worked for Telecom for 35 years, man and boy (and soulless corporate zombie)

 

[vegster]

Offshore business tax - Any company not resident but trading in UK has to pay an annual levy (based on a percentage of it's turnover) if it wants to legally trade in the UK

Renationalisation - It sounds great. But the sums are astronomical. Instead regulate all these private companies up the arse

My British based High Street company banks a fortune in Guernsey every year...I'd be delighted for them to actually pay their dues ! They already have more money than they will ever need.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Count me in. I’ll vote for you H…..

Disagree with most of the NHS though…

Pay nurses and diagnostic staff significantly more and at least 10% above agency.
cap agency rates, particularly in radiography and nursing.
GPs, just get them working on complex healthcare, all other things nurse led. GPs should even be made to work in A&E weekly for a day. Get rid of Local Medical Committee.
Protocolised treatment is already established., so practice nurses can cope.
Agree graduates, but even when they go private they are still required to work at least 70% of sessions in NHS.
Private sector I’d maintain their access but charge more, they are supporting keeping waiting lists down in other ways.
More use diagnostic facilities outside of the NHS….

Now we are getting granular! I stopped at headline funding.

From what I see of the NHS (I have had an office and lab in the same London hospital since 1986, with a brief interruption due to a temporary move) there are a range of issues. I like all your suggestions.

I would like to find some way of cutting down on the paperwork. I have been in and out of hospital for a range of health problems over the last 10 years. It is not unusual to be asked the same questions repeatedly, and it seems the information is being collected for non-operational reasons (and not curated). On one occasion, after having done this a couple of times, the surgeon popped in and put a felt pen mark on my left knee. I asked him what he was doing and had to point out I was in for surgery....on....the other knee. Doh!

Also....you know that when you get into the inner sanctum of a place you get a whiff of the weft of it, the DNA, the culture. For example, our teaching admin team in my small neck of the university woods is brilliant. The atmos when I pop in is professional yet relaxed. Flexible and innovative. Helpful and friendly.

And yet on occasions when I have slipped into an NHS hospital inner sanctum I find weird matriarch and patriarch with too much authority. The tell tale 'personalization' of office spaces, the 'home from home'....staff nipping out for a ciggy. Endless chatting when surely there is work to be done. I spent time in one of these when they lost my records. They kept paper records. I had an op cancelled twice because they couldn't find the records. In the end they did the op without my records. I got an apology off the Big Boss (which she deigned to provide between important cigarette breaks). I am not certain about this but it seems that there are silos of inefficiency that really need to be cut out. There are practices that are inefficient and burdensome. I suspect there is considerable waste.

Where I work, the hospital water supply goes down 2 or 3 times a year. In 30 years this has been too complicated for anyone to fix. FFS. Twice in the last 6 years we were told to not drink any tap water due to Legionnaires disease. The cleaners won't empty the bin in my office unless I take it out and put it in the corridor. A committee decided that one of the three main lifts should be designated as 'beds only' because a patient had complained about being squeezed in with members of the public. The result was a lift that stood empty 57 minutes out of every hour, with the other two so crowded with people pressing all the buttons that they because almost unusable. Because the hospital management is such a mess it took two years before we were able to access lift three again despite repeated petitioning. Admin are a law unto themselves.

But of course the main issue is staff shortages. I recall in the late 80s where I work there were ward closures to save money. How does that make any sense? I heard today on the radio that at one hospital the wards are all full and people are being bedded up in corridors. How can the hospital not anticipate and deal with this? Is it about money and budgets, or is it simply wankpuffinry by senior management? Whatever, it isn't acceptable and has to be fixed. Why can't hospitals recruit staff, and why can't hospitals find beds?

I have posted several times over the years that there are elements in the tory party happy to see the NHS fail because their end game is privatization. If I were a tory I would subscribe to that - medicine being a commodity like any other, to be bought and sold. Their cunning plan is working. So this needs a root and branch fix. All the things you suggest and more.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This could be sorted by extending the "Right to Buy" scheme to private renters; If you've been paying someone else's mortgage for 20 years, you should get some benefit.
As for the feller in Macclesfield (and thousands like him), if he goes bust, f..k him, the bloody leech.

As an aside, I might well have known your dad, having worked for Telecom for 35 years, man and boy (and soulless corporate zombie)

I'll PM you.

 

[el punal]

I'd like to see the meek get something because they've had a hell of a time.

Blessed are the cheese makers.

 

[attila]

Apply the same 'impartiality' standards to the press that the press are trying to force on Lineker. It doesn't matter where the money comes from: you either have free speech or you don't.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

They do. But spending years on end in a bad workplace culture drags good people down. See expenses scandal.

Good workplace culture comes from the top down. It needs inspirational leaders to put in place the appropriate sticks and carrots to move away from the current toxic lardfest we have in parliament today

I really do agree with this.

 

[heathgate]

I think they will turn up, revert to Cons-Lite as usual, borrow until we squeak, pander to the social media savvy voices, (progressive, liberal, minority), blame the prev govt for any failures that crop up, serve for one term, maybe two, then get ditched again in favour of the Cons to attempt the usual economic healing.

....and repeat.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think they will turn up, revert to Cons-Lite as usual, borrow until we squeak, pander to the social media savvy voices, (progressive, liberal, minority), blame the prev govt for any failures that crop up, serve for one term, maybe two, then get ditched again in favour of the Cons to attempt the usual economic healing.

....and repeat.

Feeling proper healed after 13 years of fiscal probity and excellent governance are you?



Also, read the title of the thread. Is this really what you think labour should do?
Typical tory, taking the goalposts and re-erecting them in you own back garden.

 

[A1X]

Publication in full of the Russia report and announcement of an immediate and full investigation into the PPE VIP lane during Covid would be a good start, we need to lift the lid on how we've been shafted by actors not acting in our best interests over the last few years. It's the only way we can collectively move on as a nation.

 

[borat]

What Labour should do and what they will is another matter.

Slimy Starmer, Streeting et al firmly are in bed with big business, corporate donors and Murdoch press so there will be no incentive / motivation for them to change much.

There may be cosmetic tweaks to policy but ultimately don't think there will be much of a divergence to the trajectory of current travel. Based on the noises that Streeting is making, one thing that Labour may fast track is increased private involvement in the NHS.

Starmer might make some big claims as to what he will do but based on the reneging of his leadership campaign pledges and his many flip flops you can't trust a word that man says.

What a choice we have...

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Stop water companies pumping shit in the sea
Sort the trains out
Make the NHS more efficient (It doesn't just need more money, it does need to be run better but that doesn't mean it needs to be privatised)
Make Britain the home of something that produces something and isn't some service industry bollox that has no longevity.
Keep the labour mentalists away from the Cabinet.

 

[Simster]

Stop water companies pumping shit in the sea
Sort the trains out
Make the NHS more efficient (It doesn't just need more money, it does need to be run better but that doesn't mean it needs to be privatised)
Make Britain the home of something that produces something and isn't some service industry bollox that has no longevity.
Keep the labour mentalists away from the Cabinet.

Correct as usual.

I'd also add that next time there is a war, feel free not to embarrass and shame the nation by going along with world opinion and requesting a ceasefire.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Cheaper avocados and Netflix for the youth please. Then they can afford to buy.

 

[happypig]

Now we are getting granular! I stopped at headline funding.

From what I see of the NHS (I have had an office and lab in the same London hospital since 1986, with a brief interruption due to a temporary move) there are a range of issues. I like all your suggestions.

I would like to find some way of cutting down on the paperwork. I have been in and out of hospital for a range of health problems over the last 10 years. It is not unusual to be asked the same questions repeatedly, and it seems the information is being collected for non-operational reasons (and not curated). On one occasion, after having done this a couple of times, the surgeon popped in and put a felt pen mark on my left knee. I asked him what he was doing and had to point out I was in for surgery....on....the other knee. Doh!

Also....you know that when you get into the inner sanctum of a place you get a whiff of the weft of it, the DNA, the culture. For example, our teaching admin team in my small neck of the university woods is brilliant. The atmos when I pop in is professional yet relaxed. Flexible and innovative. Helpful and friendly.

And yet on occasions when I have slipped into an NHS hospital inner sanctum I find weird matriarch and patriarch with too much authority. The tell tale 'personalization' of office spaces, the 'home from home'....staff nipping out for a ciggy. Endless chatting when surely there is work to be done. I spent time in one of these when they lost my records. They kept paper records. I had an op cancelled twice because they couldn't find the records. In the end they did the op without my records. I got an apology off the Big Boss (which she deigned to provide between important cigarette breaks). I am not certain about this but it seems that there are silos of inefficiency that really need to be cut out. There are practices that are inefficient and burdensome. I suspect there is considerable waste.

Where I work, the hospital water supply goes down 2 or 3 times a year. In 30 years this has been too complicated for anyone to fix. FFS. Twice in the last 6 years we were told to not drink any tap water due to Legionnaires disease. The cleaners won't empty the bin in my office unless I take it out and put it in the corridor. A committee decided that one of the three main lifts should be designated as 'beds only' because a patient had complained about being squeezed in with members of the public. The result was a lift that stood empty 57 minutes out of every hour, with the other two so crowded with people pressing all the buttons that they because almost unusable. Because the hospital management is such a mess it took two years before we were able to access lift three again despite repeated petitioning. Admin are a law unto themselves.

But of course the main issue is staff shortages. I recall in the late 80s where I work there were ward closures to save money. How does that make any sense? I heard today on the radio that at one hospital the wards are all full and people are being bedded up in corridors. How can the hospital not anticipate and deal with this? Is it about money and budgets, or is it simply wankpuffinry by senior management? Whatever, it isn't acceptable and has to be fixed. Why can't hospitals recruit staff, and why can't hospitals find beds?

I have posted several times over the years that there are elements in the tory party happy to see the NHS fail because their end game is privatization. If I were a tory I would subscribe to that - medicine being a commodity like any other, to be bought and sold. Their cunning plan is working. So this needs a root and branch fix. All the things you suggest and more.

As far as records go, the NHS should have had a national computer system years ago. BT brought one in called CSS* in the late 80s. Initially just standalone systems it soon became interlinked throughout the whole country. I could log on to a terminal in any BT building and look up (if my profile allowed) any customer's record, from engineering records such as which cables fed them to billing history and customer correspondence. Everything was on it.
I seem to recall that BT offered to build a similar system for the NHS but there were too many people who wanted to have their fingers in the pie and the initial cost was thought to be unjustifiable by the Tory government (who'd have thought).

In my dealings with the NHS I am still amazed that different departments still write to each other. Actual Letters ! In 2023 ! It beggars belief.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_Service_System

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As far as records go, the NHS should have had a national computer system years ago. BT brought one in called CSS* in the late 80s. Initially just standalone systems it soon became interlinked throughout the whole country. I could log on to a terminal in any BT building and look up (if my profile allowed) any customer's record, from engineering records such as which cables fed them to billing history and customer correspondence. Everything was on it.
I seem to recall that BT offered to build a similar system for the NHS but there were too many people who wanted to have their fingers in the pie and the initial cost was thought to be unjustifiable by the Tory government (who'd have thought).

In my dealings with the NHS I am still amazed that different departments still write to each other. Actual Letters ! In 2023 ! It beggars belief.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_Service_System

Yep. That maps to my perception. If I have a scan or an X ray, there is no justification for it taking 3 weeks to be sent by post to the GP.

Something else that annoys me is that unless the outcome requires intervention, they don't get in touch. I have scoliosis. It was formally diagnosed 10 years ago. The X ray tech said she'd not seen such a bad curvature for a long time. Then I heard nothing. I contacted my GP, and 2 weeks later got an appointment. The GP read a letter from the junior doctor who had looked at my X ray. He/she had written 'normal' on it. Through my insistence I was referred for physio (which I elected to have at work in London) and the young physiotherapist said 'lets fix this'. He showed me a straightening exercise and I have been pain free ever since. More than 40 years of pain that could have been fixed when I was in my 20s with joined up thinking from people motivated to do their job properly. Who knew?

Now, this is shitehousery. There are too many steps and stages. If someone makes a bad decision the trail ends, and unless the patient takes ownership they are f***ed. Simple joined up technology and process, absent. The junior doctor had of course completed all his paperwork properly. So everything was fine, officially.

My guess is that 'health and safety' and 'the department of compliance' have 'deemed' it a potential source of breach of patient confidentiality to have an accessible data base and communication via Teams and email.

Here is another cracker from my workplace. I am in a university floor in an 'NHS' hospital. There is a post room in the hospital. Back when we used to use post (I don't need to now, but I'm not a medic) the post was taken down there each day. I am provided with stationary from my university. My university decided it wanted to use branded envelopes. The hospital post room then started to refuse to handle my post as it was 'university' not 'hospital'. The university refused to supply me with unbranded stationary and told me either to post my letters at the post office 10 minutes walk from my office, keep the receipts and claim back the postage (via a mechanism that did not yet exist), or buy my own stationary and apply for a refund. Or pop over to the main campus a mile away and hand the post in to the university post room there. In the end I spent £100 on unbranded envelopes and some months later was reimbursed. The irony is that I still have about £90 worth of it left since we rapidly moved into electronic communication. But as you say, in clinical medicine they are still writing bloody letters.

 

[Peteinblack]

I wouldn’t use the term “a good thing” but I accept this as a consequence. It’s similar to AfD over here. I one respect I prefer them to be “out” and properly challenged as opposed to sniping from the unelected side-lines.

I agree. I despise Farage/UKIP/Brexit Party/Reform UK, but if they won seats in the House of Commons via PR, people could see how they responded and voted on non-immigration issues - tax evasion, re-nationalisation of railways, employment protection/rights, building affordable housing, public services.

I suspect a lot of the angry (mainly) working class voters who vote for these populist anti-immigrant parties would be shocked to see how little these parties care about ordinary working people on issues other than immigration. From what I can discern, on most issues, they are to the Right of Thatcher; certainly, they appeal to a strong element of authoritarianism, but I can't imagine the likes of Farage or Tice ever cracking-down on bad employers or landlords, or condemning corporate greed.