Suarez

[perseus]

Respect where it is due (or earned)

D

Rascim has got nothing to do with personalities - it has a lot to do with the experiences of growing up and also the lack of experiences when growing up.

I am not disagreeing. I said that the Evra - Suarez conflict has more to do with conflicting personalities. I would say bullying has a lot to do with conflicting personalities. I would say Evra is a bully, but that is just the view of my personality. Bullies (a certain personality) may have a tendency to be racist if there upbringing is like that. They also have a tendency to suspect racism in another person. I don't think this applies to Suarez. Suarez is not a racist. Evra might be

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I am not disagreeing. I said that the Evra - Suarez conflict has more to do with conflicting personalities. I would say bullying has a lot to do with conflicting personalities. I would say Evra is a bully, but that is just the view of my personality. Bullies (a certain personality) may have a tendency to be racist if there upbringing is like that. They also have a tendency to suspect racism in another person. I don't think this applies to Suarez. Suarez is not a racist. Evra might be

Have you actually read/seen what Suarez said?

Bullies are racist because they suspect racism? So logically anyone claiming racism or bullying must be a bully or racist? - Thats just rubbish or paranoia

On what grounds might Evra be an racist?? - You might have had a bad experience but not all people that claim racism are liars, bullies or racists Just us much as only some white/black people are rascists.

As I said in built personality has nothing to do with it but on reflection perhaps environment built personality - Also I've never met a real racist with a nice personality - I have met a few that were confused though and their racism only came out in certain situations

 

[Bwian]

Have you actually read/seen what Suarez said?

Have you?

Have you also read what Evra said to Suarez before the 'incident'?

They were both name calling. Evra is no more the 'victim' than Suarez is the 'racist' he is being made out to be. One comment does not make a person a racist.

There are only 2 people who really know what happened and one of them changed his story three times if reports are correct.

 

[perseus]

Have you actually read/seen what Suarez said?

Bullies are racist because they suspect racism? So logically anyone claiming racism or bullying must be a bully or racist? - Thats just rubbish or paranoia

On what grounds might Evra be an racist?? - You might have had a bad experience but not all people that claim racism are liars, bullies or racists Just us much as only some white/black people are rascists.

As I said in built personality has nothing to do with it but on reflection perhaps environment built personality - Also I've never met a real racist with a nice personality - I have met a few that were confused though and their racism only came out in certain situations

I think it is called "crying wolf". Or in southern terms "don't throw stones in you live in a Crystal Palace".

One well known trick that bullies use is going around bullying people, and when somebody snaps and responds, they actually make a complaint of bullying against the person they have been bullying. The complaint may be justified but it ignores other things that preceded it. They might use the racist card if it is too their advantage. I do not really know if they are racists or not. I don't understand racism, or stereotyping people because of their natural appearance, rather than their actions.

 

[Working class pride]

Who noticed the young child standing their looking at them? Insults, handshakes, all pap, but that for me says it all about them both as individuals.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Have you?

Have you also read what Evra said to Suarez before the 'incident'?

They were both name calling. Evra is no more the 'victim' than Suarez is the 'racist' he is being made out to be. One comment does not make a person a racist.

There are only 2 people who really know what happened and one of them changed his story three times if reports are correct.

What a load of crap - the incident was recorded and several players heard what happened. Suarez's own statements even state that things he said which are not acceptable now (not that they ever were)

I think it was Suarez that was inconsistent not Evra and that is why Suarez was banned.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I think it is called "crying wolf". Or in southern terms "don't throw stones in you live in a Crystal Palace".

One well known trick that bullies use is going around bullying people, and when somebody snaps and responds, they actually make a complaint of bullying against the person they have been bullying. The complaint may be justified but it ignores other things that preceded it. They might use the racist card if it is too their advantage. I do not really know if they are racists or not. I don't understand racism, or stereotyping people because of their natural appearance, rather than their actions.

Isn't what you described what you are doing now?

 

[Aldo]

Suarez has served his ban and decided not to shake Evra's hand, big deal. The whole pre game handshakes are pathetic anyway. Would you shake someones hand who told you that they wanted your sister c**t? And it's clear to see that Evra withdraws his hand away from Suarez in comparison to his other handshakes, then looks into the camera to make a big hoohar about it. Rio chose not to shake Suarez hand, so what.

Suarez didn't want to shake Evra's hand so he didn't, just like how Fergie didn't want to speak to BBC for years and didn't. Everything has been hugely blown out of proportion, by the media, both players, and admittedly Liverpool's handling of it since the ban has been completed. Will Gerrard cry to the FA for having 70,000 reminding him he's a 'Scouse bastard'? I doubt it.

That all being said, I wish Kenny would drop it, as everyone else should. The FA report itself states that Luis Suarez is not, and is not being convicted of being, a racist and anyone who is to label him as such is clearly naive and doesn't understand the case. It's far more complex than say John Terry (ex England captain, so surprise surprise no one in the media cares), admittedly calling someone a "Black (now apparently blind) C**t".

Suarez was found guilty and banned. He servered his ban. Everyone get over it.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

It was incredible watching Match of the Day and seeing the pundits give their analysis of whether something was an attempted handshake or not to a repeated slow-motion replay of the pre-match build up. Surreal.

 

[Working class pride]

Yes the most mature person in that incident was the 6 year old child who was watching every second. I expect her dad told her.."they are both very silly boys and i'm very proud that you looked so mature in comparison". If the childs dad asked the two clubs for an explanation of the behaviour of their employees in front of his child the I would not blame him.

 

[pasty]

Yes the most mature person in that incident was the 6 year old child who was watching every second. I expect her dad told her.."they are both very silly boys and i'm very proud that you looked so mature in comparison". If the childs dad asked the two clubs for an explanation of the behaviour of their employees in front of his child the I would not blame him.

Indeed, both players behaved like 4 year olds yesterday. Okay, so Suarez didn't want to shake Evra's hand, but Evra's reaction to that caused even more of a furore. And then just a minute or so into the game Evra was clearly trying to go in hard on Suarez and (imo) hurt him on purpose. Not wishing injury on any player, but I almost wish he'd got Suarez instead of Ferdinand as it would almost certainly have resulted in a red card.

 

[Bwian]

What a load of crap - the incident was recorded and several players heard what happened. Suarez's own statements even state that things he said which are not acceptable now (not that they ever were)

I think it was Suarez that was inconsistent not Evra and that is why Suarez was banned.

Suarez was banned for something that he said and admitted to saying. The inconsistencies from Evra stem from how many time he (Suarez) was alleged to have used the offensive word. was it 5, 7 or 10? Depends on the time during the hearing. As for several players having heard what happened-is that a fact or something that you're led to believe is the case?

You never answered my question about whether you've actually read anything about the case-other than the bits in the press? Nor what Evra said to Suarez before the incident?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Well done to Luis Suarez for not shaking Evra's hand. Shaking hands is a gesture of friendliness and affinity. If he had shaken Evra's hand, it would have been an empty gesture and would have cheapened and twisted the meaning of handshaking. Evra's offer of a handshake was certainly an empty one. This was revealed by his pointing out to the camera, to try to make himself look good and Suarez look bad, when the Liverpool player declined Evra's hand.

 

[Working class pride]

Well done to Luis Suarez for not shaking Evra's hand. Shaking hands is a gesture of friendliness and affinity. If he had shaken Evra's hand, it would have been an empty gesture and would have cheapened and twisted the meaning of handshaking. Evra's offer of a handshake was certainly an empty one. This was revealed by his pointing out to the camera, to try to make himself look good and Suarez look bad, when the Liverpool player declined Evra's hand.

Understand that view but not when there is a 6 year old standing there. You swallow your own views and behave.

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Suarez was banned for something that he said and admitted to saying. The inconsistencies from Evra stem from how many time he (Suarez) was alleged to have used the offensive word. was it 5, 7 or 10? Depends on the time during the hearing. As for several players having heard what happened-is that a fact or something that you're led to believe is the case?

You never answered my question about whether you've actually read anything about the case-other than the bits in the press? Nor what Evra said to Suarez before the incident?

Suarez was not banned for what he said but the context in which what he said was deemed by the FA to be unlikely to be conciliatory.

 

[perseus]

He's calling me names

Well done to Luis Suarez for not shaking Evra's hand. Shaking hands is a gesture of friendliness and affinity. If he had shaken Evra's hand, it would have been an empty gesture and would have cheapened and twisted the meaning of handshaking. Evra's offer of a handshake was certainly an empty one. This was revealed by his pointing out to the camera, to try to make himself look good and Suarez look bad, when the Liverpool player declined Evra's hand.

Well this is right in the ideal world. However, the game (handshaking) was an exercise in collaboration before the cameras. Both players should have been briefed on the correct etiquette for the press. It maybe one or the other or both of the players could not handle it (too upset) ? It is not as though footballers are not any good at acting?

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Suarez was banned for something that he said and admitted to saying. The inconsistencies from Evra stem from how many time he (Suarez) was alleged to have used the offensive word. was it 5, 7 or 10? Depends on the time during the hearing. As for several players having heard what happened-is that a fact or something that you're led to believe is the case?

You never answered my question about whether you've actually read anything about the case-other than the bits in the press? Nor what Evra said to Suarez before the incident?

I read the bits in the Fa report including the Suarez, players and ref report. Where did you read yours?

Most people including Liverpool were expecting the report to just show that both players had equal blame - IT DIDN"T - Suarez stated some of the comments he made and thought they were ok - THEY WERE NOT - It left Liverpool and people supporting Suarez looking really bad which is why they shut up and tried to move it along.

How do you excuse the Suarez inconsistencies?

How you can come up with this sad excuse of a racist incident beats me - I don't like Manure or even Evra but based on his history Suarez is a nasty piece of work.

When Black England players go to Italy, Spain or Croatia its not right they should have to put up with this shit and if we are serious about it here it should not be tolerated here.

You can keep going on about Evra but if you read the FA report you should see that Suarez was found guilty by his own words whereas Evra is guilty of what? At worst saying "yours sisters pussy" after he was fouled by Suarez. after that Suarez brought in his skin colour. Is that ok then?

 

[chez]

What a load of crap - the incident was recorded and several players heard what happened. Suarez's own statements even state that things he said which are not acceptable now (not that they ever were)

I think it was Suarez that was inconsistent not Evra and that is why Suarez was banned.

You seem very blinkered when it comes to this. It is widely regarded that Suarez got banned for owning up, whereas Evra despite being as guilty got off scott free because he didnt own up.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

You seem very blinkered when it comes to this. It is widely regarded that Suarez got banned for owning up, whereas Evra despite being as guilty got off scott free because he didnt own up.

It might be widely regarded in your circles but I don't/didn't see many people disagreeing with the report (including Liverpool and many of their fans) when they read it. Are you sure you aint the one thats blinkered?

Suraez still says he never did it so how has he "owned up"

What do you think Evra is guilty of then? Complaining? being Black? Having a go at a Chelsea Groundsman? Being a Manc? Being French?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

Well this is right in the ideal world. However, the game (handshaking) was an exercise in collaboration before the cameras. Both players should have been briefed on the correct etiquette for the press. It maybe one or the other or both of the players could not handle it (too upset) ? It is not as though footballers are not any good at acting?

I find it hard to believe that the TV bosses were angry that the handshake between the two players didn't happen. Arguably, it made for great telly and stoked interest in the game. I get what you say about players acting, and i'm sure not many footballers are particularly precious about being authentic! Yet possibly, your point about acting could be turned on its head. If the FA don't want professional footballers to play-act during the game, to falsely make themselves look good/innocent, why are they trying to encourage it before a game?

The bigger issue isn't the lack or handshake and the other incidents yesterday but what they are an expression of: namely Evra isn't over his argument with Suarez, and Suarez isn't over his argument with Evra. Does it matter that they're not? If people think it does matter, surely the starting point is to ask what's it going to take for Suarez to be OK with Evra and vice versa rather than anger at players for not fulfilling the codes of etiquette expected of them?

By the way, I'm saying all of these while agreeing that Suarez was behaving in a highly petulant way yesterday.