Suarez

[Herr Tubthumper]

Oh good someone's brought up Hitler, thread over.

FFS stop being so precious. I have not used it in an offensive manner.

 

[Acker79]

Ah, gotcha. Next time I am trying to calm a black man I'll call him a negro a few times then. That'll chill him out.

But that's not a fair comparison. He wasn't calling him a negro in the sense that english speaking people use it. They spoke in spanish, and it means something else, wthout the highly charged racial connotations. As mentioned in my other post, the language experts backed up Suarez on this point. It can be used as an offensive term, but the offensive version of it didn't scan right with what was supposedly said.

 

[pork pie]

Mmmmm. Funny you should say this because I have always found the "he is his own man" term generally relates to someone describing/justifying a complete prick. It's a bit like when someone proclaims "I'm a self-made man", what he has really just said is I'm a gobshite.

Out of interest, Hitler fits your reasoning....what do you think of him?

You obviously have never met many "self-made men". I have they tend to be very impressive. Hitler? That question is out of order!

 

[Acker79]

FFS stop being so precious. I have not used it in an offensive manner.

He wasn't being precious, it's a reference to Godwin's law - any time hitler is used as an example in an internet debate, the debate is over.

 

[Acker79]

This whole point about "no grassing" doesn't fit, or sit well with this situation.
It's racism - that is not just something a player should endure and stand up for by saying nothing. We have had that for centuries and it's been deemed that it must stop.

I agree with you about the no grassing argument being weak, I'm simply pointing out hat in the past people have come on here and said there's nothing worse than a grass. I think lots of things are worse than grassing, including racism.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

If Suarez had not been found guilty and not received an eight game ban, would Evra have shaken Suarez's hand if it was offered.
Would he f***.
So I dont blame Suarez for not shaking Evra's hand

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You obviously have never met many "self-made men". I have they tend to be very impressive. Hitler? That question is out of order!

You favour blokes that are pricks and gobshites....I'm forming an opinion of you.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He wasn't being precious, it's a reference to Godwin's law - any time hitler is used as an example in an internet debate, the debate is over.

Oh dear. That went right over my head. Apologies.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You obviously have never met many "self-made men"!

There is a big difference between being self-made and proclaiming you're self-made. And I've met enough of both types.

 

[NMH]

I agree with you about the no grassing argument being weak, I'm simply pointing out hat in the past people have come on here and said there's nothing worse than a grass. I think lots of things are worse than grassing, including racism.

We are in agreement on that.

Looking at the very nature of racism, we know that a victim wins no 'respect' for saying nothing and enduring it from another man. He cannot respond in a way that avenges the humiliation, and he cannot just shrug and think "oh well, he just doesn't like skin colour, it's nothing to do with my personality or anything I did wrong" because that just underlines the wrongfulness of it. The next time they meet, Evra isn't going to get a nod of respect and appreciation for saying nothing! He'll just get more and worse racist bile spewed over him.
The ONLY revenge the victim can have is for the perpetrator to be humiliated like he has done to the other man.

Evra has rightly accused Suarez of racism, and for all his claims the Uruguayan has admitted his intent and his guilt by stating that "it should stay on the pitch".
I hope Suarez now gets hounded at every turn, shunned by fellow professionals and fans and made to feel like a speck of worthlessness, unless he comes out and apologises to Evra instead of continuing to blame him and excuse himself.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You favour blokes that are pricks and gobshites....I'm forming an opinion of you.

.....and having just read your Ken Bates comments in another thread I now have a definite opinion of you Mr Pork Pie.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

We are in agreement on that.

Looking at the very nature of racism, we know that a victim wins no 'respect' for saying nothing and enduring it from another man. He cannot respond in a way that avenges the humiliation, and he cannot just shrug and think "oh well, he just doesn't like skin colour, it's nothing to do with my personality or anything I did wrong" because that just underlines the wrongfulness of it. The next time they meet, Evra isn't going to get a nod of respect and appreciation for saying nothing! He'll just get more and worse racist bile spewed over him.
The ONLY revenge the victim can have is for the perpetrator to be humiliated like he has done to the other man.

Evra has rightly accused Suarez of racism, and for all his claims the Uruguayan has admitted his intent and his guilt by stating that "it should stay on the pitch".
I hope Suarez now gets hounded at every turn, shunned by fellow professionals and fans and made to feel like a speck of worthlessness, unless he comes out and apologises to Evra instead of continuing to blame him and excuse himself.

This.

 

[Working class pride]

The liverpool player should have shook hands and the United player should have made little of it when he didnt - if for no-one else's sake but the child that was standing next to them. Plague on both their houses but frankly, who cares?

 

[BHAJ]

Breaking news:
Evra didn't hold out his hand to be shaken, and only complained after Suarez went past.
Watch the after game replay footage - Evra's hand is high, ready to shake the 2 players before Suarez. As Suarez comes along, his hand drops. It's not clear whether he'd have shaken hands or not.

THIS - And then grabs Suarez hand whilst glaring down at the camera

 

[Albion Robster]

If Suarez had not been found guilty and not received an eight game ban, would Evra have shaken Suarez's hand if it was offered.
Would he f***.
So I dont blame Suarez for not shaking Evra's hand

YES! Evra would have never shaken the hand of Suarez if this!

 

[Triggaaar]

OMFG, Ferguson is such a ****ing low life ****.

Because he cares so much about Liverpool and Liverpool's history, he says Suarez has shamed Liverpool and he should never play for them again. It's not that he wants to cause problems for a rival club at all, oh no, he wants what's best for them. Why is it that all the Liverpool greats, the owners, the manager, the other players haven't come forward and said the same thing yet? I guess Fergie likes Liverpool more than they do.

 

[Decode]

A "cauldron of racist hate".......all I can say on that is, dont believe the hype....this a club who produced a book called the Asian Liverbird specifically catered for asian fans, who had a player who was/is basically at the forefront of anti racism in football in this country in John Barnes, who have no recent history of racism within either the club or the fanbase....

The whole shitstorm created by the Evra Suarez affair has thrown a lot of mud in many different directions, a lot of which has stuck, but the facts dont back up the basic media-fed idea of "Liverpool - The racist club" - and to be honest, anyone who believes Liverpool are a racist club, is either a bit thick, or easily led by the papers and Sky news....which go hand in hand in some ways

Link

I said some, not all. There have been way more examples, direct events from Liverpool, Dalglish and Suarez refusing to take responsibility for his actions and apoligising.

And i said Liverpool are a proud and historic club and i feel all this is beneath them. They should have been looking to move on from this all as quickly as possible, but continually refuse to!

 

[Dave the OAP]

Give Suarez a great reception?! What the f*** are you talking about. We are in the away end incase that had passed you by.....

This

 

[lfc]

Link

I said some, not all. There have been way more examples, direct events from Liverpool, Dalglish and Suarez refusing to take responsibility for his actions and apoligising.

And i said Liverpool are a proud and historic club and i feel all this is beneath them. They should have been looking to move on from this all as quickly as possible, but continually refuse to!

My point was, its ridiculous to call our club "a cauldron of hate", just as its ridiculous to link some random fellas twitter as if its reflective of Liverpools whole fanbase or even a part of it.

As for Dalglish and Suarez's actions, as I said before in this thread, they obviously believe that theyve done nothing wrong, whether you agree with that is up to you...

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But that's not a fair comparison. He wasn't calling him a negro in the sense that english speaking people use it. They spoke in spanish, and it means something else, wthout the highly charged racial connotations. As mentioned in my other post, the language experts backed up Suarez on this point. It can be used as an offensive term, but the offensive version of it didn't scan right with what was supposedly said.

When I read the report it said that yes it can be used in an inoffensive manner in certain context but the experts failed to see how this could be the case given the two were arguing. Hence he was banned for 8 games.