[Albion] Stop the catastrophizing right now

[Silverhatch]

No catastrophe. We play the way we play. There is an argument for more pragmatism away from home. Our midfield is not as strong as last season. All of our genuine out ball wide men are missing. We’re f***ing BHA not Barcelona and we are still a small fish in a very shark-infested pond. Still have to pinch myself at some of the football we play.

Slapped myself last night.

Oh, and well played Luton.

 

[WhingForPresident]

My “guess” is that something has happened behind the scenes , in the last few days, that has immediately impacted on the confidence of the squad.

That was my thought. Bad results and performances happen but the (what I interpreted as) apathy on display last night was the real worry. Maybe it was just a crap performance, guess we'll have a better indication on Saturday.

 

[ElectricNaz]

I agree with the OP. So what, we have bad games every now and again. It doesn't automatically cancel out all the amazing games we've had this season (and last) in the same way the Everton and Villa games didn't. With the way we play, we have to appreciate that this can and will happen every now and again.

As for a proper plan B (as I've seen some armchair managers suggest RDZ should be working on), please name me one other football team which has two completely different ways of playing football where they can switch between the two effectively. I don't think it's possible. Especially with the injuries we have limiting our options.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Most of our issues were caused by Steele hoofing the ball long and us losing possession as a result.

Surely not for the first two goals?

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Has no one blamed the tea lady yet for making coffee?!

Yep, she got roasted.

 

[Pete Skinner]

It happens, we lose, yep even against all odds.

We have the best squad EVER assembled.
We have the best status EVER - playing in Europe knockout stages, FA cup and in with a real shout at Europe qualification via the league.
We absolutely batter teams outplaying them with greater possession, often numerous more shots playing highly entertaining attractive exciting football.
We have valuable assets at the club in the players, including a youth structure other top teams are envious of
The potential for this club is absolutely massive we can break into the top 6 on merit.

Some of the stuff I'm reading tonight is quite honestly ridiculous. We have NOT become a bad team overnight.

We WILL come back and batter our opponents Saturday. The timing is ideal.

Is it too late to sell Dunk ?

 

[dazzer6666]

Surely not for the first two goals?

No but it was bizarre how many times he smacked it down the centre to no-one

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think that’s been a theme from us in many games this season. Passes not completed when trying to play out or transition - Lallana, Webster, Gross, Dahoud, Ferguson. I sit there and say to my son “Why does ______ keep passing to the opposition?” Wolves and Burnley at the Amex are fresh in the mind. NOT necessarily when under intense pressure from a press, instead the equivalent of a tennis unforced error.

Ceding vital possession, ending promising or potential attacks.

Agree with a lot, though not all, of that.

Dahoud hasn't been around because he's not good enough. In Europe with a bit more time on the ball and less need for physicality he's ok but in the Premier League he's under pressure quickly with poor decision making, poor physicality and not chasing back.

Lallana is knackered. He's been a great signing, he's brought a winning mentality to the side and has an incredible touch but it's clear this season that there is zero pace and he can't play 90 mins.

Webster and Ferguson are worries. Webster has the first touch of a front row forward and can't pass accurately. Ferguson, for a big lad, can't hold it up. Joao Pedro is SO much better at holding the ball.

I would exempt Gross from criticism here though. Generally his passing is excellent and creative, Sometimes he'll make what looks like an error but he's simply played a pass that no one's read.

Overall, in ball retention, we miss Caicedo and I've said this all season. There is no pivot capable of receiving the ball under pressure and playing us through. Gilmour can do it sometimes but Caicedo was ultra reliable.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I agree with the OP. So what, we have bad games every now and again. It doesn't automatically cancel out all the amazing games we've had this season (and last) in the same way the Everton and Villa games didn't. With the way we play, we have to appreciate that this can and will happen every now and again.

As for a proper plan B (as I've seen some armchair managers suggest RDZ should be working on), please name me one other football team which has two completely different ways of playing football where they can switch between the two effectively. I don't think it's possible. Especially with the injuries we have limiting our options.

In the multiverse, Everything, Everywhere All at Once, I dare say we lose that match in pretty much every alternative tactical reality we play out.

Tactics only take you so far, with any style of tactics, the players have to be on it. They weren't, I think our tactics last night were largely irrelevant, as there was unfortunately a collective underperformance that no amount of tactical rearrangement was going to alter.

There are certainly other games where we are on it and actually tactics, game management etc. have played a huge role in not getting a win, or being beaten, that wasn't the case last night.

 

[Brian Fantana]

For me, it boils down to two quite straight forward things:

1. RDZ's system relies heavily on wingers, and the over/underlapping chaos caused by them working in tandem with the full backs. Not having wingers means we have to overcommit our full backs in attack to provide some width, but then we're in massive trouble as soon as we lose the ball.

2. We've not gotten anywhere close to replacing Caicedo/Mac Allister. Granted those two are high, high quality players whose replacements do not grow on trees, but I thought we might go for someone a bit more established to try and help plug the gap. Despite some flashes of potential, Baleba isn't close to being the answer yet.

 

[Weststander]

Agree with a lot, though not all, of that.

Dahoud hasn't been around because he's not good enough. In Europe with a bit more time on the ball and less need for physicality he's ok but in the Premier League he's under pressure quickly with poor decision making, poor physicality and not chasing back.

Lallana is knackered. He's been a great signing, he's brought a winning mentality to the side and has an incredible touch but it's clear this season that there is zero pace and he can't play 90 mins.

Webster and Ferguson are worries. Webster has the first touch of a front row forward and can't pass accurately. Ferguson, for a big lad, can't hold it up. Joao Pedro is SO much better at holding the ball.

I would exempt Gross from criticism here though. Generally his passing is excellent and creative, Sometimes he'll make what looks like an error but he's simply played a pass that no one's read.

Overall, in ball retention, we miss Caicedo and I've said this all season. There is no pivot capable of receiving the ball under pressure and playing us through. Gilmour can do it sometimes but Caicedo was ultra reliable.

Imho Ferguson could hold the ball last season and the beginning of this. His game has collapsed just now, literally every opponent no matter how average is winning every tussle.

 

[rippleman]

For me, it boils down to two quite straight forward things:

1. RDZ's system relies heavily on wingers, and the over/underlapping chaos caused by them working in tandem with the full backs. Not having wingers means we have to overcommit our full backs in attack to provide some width, but then we're in massive trouble as soon as we lose the ball.

2. We've not gotten anywhere close to replacing Caicedo/Mac Allister. Granted those two are high, high quality players whose replacements do not grow on trees, but I thought we might go for someone a bit more established to try and help plug the gap. Despite some flashes of potential, Baleba isn't close to being the answer yet.

I thought the game (can't remember which now) where Baleba played as QB (the "pivot" if you like) was the closest we have come to having a Caicedo-like performance this season. He looked born to it. But I don't recxall him getting the chance again. I would much rather he was given more time and opportunity but RDZ prefers to pick the old plodder Milner.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I thought the game (can't remember which now) where Baleba played as QB (the "pivot" if you like) was the closest we have come to having a Caicedo-like performance this season. He looked born to it. But I don't recxall him getting the chance again. I would much rather he was given more time and opportunity but RDZ prefers to pick the old plodder Milner.

It was Brentford and we won.

I do think we tried it again against Burnley to less effect. Then Baleba clearly wasn't impressing RDZ against Palace and got hoiked.

 

[Zeberdi]

Why the f*** do you feel for our lads? They have been pathetic!
I feel for us in stands having to endure this shite!

What a load of sanctimonious tosh!

Yeah and remember that game at Hereford .
Why do we need to list all the positives after getting stuffed by “a team like Luton”.

It’s my and any football fans right to moan about that game last night. Bloody pathetic. We got bullied.

You don’t - but it is usual after matches to have at least one thread where people can feel they can list the positives and counter the negativity on the match thread without being trolled by others and this is one of them.

Or at least it was until turning into a general critique about the squad.

No one is stopping anyone from moaning but likewise, people shouldn't attack those who aren’t ready to hang, draw and quarter the squad, manager or owner or see the sky falling in because we had a bad night.

For some fans ‘support’ isn’t conditional on winning - for a few of us, even though we are critical of results (as all of us have been) we are positive about everything overall and that’s all.

We all recognise we have struggled to fill the MF after losing Moises and as I have said on the match thread (each one in fact in the past month or so), we are still playing a wingerless side and struggling to get 11 players together playing in their normal position - no one is seeing the Club/management through rose tinted spectacles but there is a balance imo to how we react.

 

[Barnet Seagull]

As an Albion fan don't we all just write off the time between Boxing day and March? Or is it just me?

 

[Zeberdi]

It happens, we lose, yep even against all odds.

We have the best squad EVER assembled.
We have the best status EVER - playing in Europe knockout stages, FA cup and in with a real shout at Europe qualification via the league.
We absolutely batter teams outplaying them with greater possession, often numerous more shots playing highly entertaining attractive exciting football.
We have valuable assets at the club in the players, including a youth structure other top teams are envious of
The potential for this club is absolutely massive we can break into the top 6 on merit.

Some of the stuff I'm reading tonight is quite honestly ridiculous. We have NOT become a bad team overnight.

We WILL come back and batter our opponents Saturday. The timing is ideal.

This

 

[Oh_aye]

Bad day at the office. Loads of injuries, tired players and an absolutely ON IT opposition. It happens. Happens several times last season and early this and we almost always respond.

Doing reasonable in the league and still in two Cup competitions and no one complaining when we spanked Sheff United a few days ago.

Just have to accept that sometimes you lose and sometimes the opposition just outplay you.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Imho Ferguson could hold the ball last season and the beginning of this. His game has collapsed just now, literally every opponent no matter how average is winning every tussle.

He should be an unknown quantity as he develops as a teenager. Opposition tactics just focussing on their shape, not his threat as a individual.

I think because of the impact he has had, teams are watching footage of him and coming up with plans, often ensuring they double up, on his touch so to speak. He is being given no space or time whatsoever that others would likely get as they develop their skills for dealing with it.

Let us not forget the likes of Harry Kane developed across a number of loans before making an impact in the PL, learning the CF trade so to speak.

I don't think it is so much his game has collapsed for now, more that plans are ramped up against him. He now needs time to develop those skills to catchup with what is being deployed against him imho.

 

[BLOCK F]

Yep, she got roasted.

Ah, you’ve just spilt the beans!

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Primarily, everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether praising or catastrophizing. I've read all of this thread and most of the match day thread and find myself categorising each author's negative comments thus:

1. Drunk in charge of a keyboard.
2. Poor understanding of football esp. tactics.
3. Blind love of the club such that any mauling hurts deep.

As we say, we move on. But please don't repeat a performance like that in a hurry.