[Politics] Stop the boats

[Pavilionaire]

Strategic lies, dead cats, gaslighting and a complicit right- wing media to reinforce the lies. We've had 7 years of this. Labour may not be perfect, but there is no evidence they'll seek to lie as a means of governing and controlling, and I look forward to more honesty and openness in government.

We had no boats before Brexit. Starmer knows this. It will be interesting to see how he deals with this and other damaging by-products of Brexit.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As someone who worked in immigration, the Rwanda scheme and the stop the boats is al gesture politics, was never going work. All to please the thick racistsc

Yet, they wasted tax payers money on court cases!

 

[Hastings gull]

Strategic lies, dead cats, gaslighting and a complicit right- wing media to reinforce the lies. We've had 7 years of this. Labour may not be perfect, but there is no evidence they'll seek to lie as a means of governing and controlling, and I look forward to more honesty and openness in government.

We had no boats before Brexit. Starmer knows this. It will be interesting to see how he deals with this and other damaging by-products of Brexit.

True -there were fewer boats but they just tried to storm lorries instead prior to Brexit -have you conveniently forgotten that?

 

[Pavilionaire]

True -there were fewer boats but they just tried to storm lorries instead prior to Brexit -have you conveniently forgotten?

What do you think is the bigger problem - migrants climbing on lorries in France and being an EU problem, or dead bodies washing up on British beaches from British waters?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

True -there were fewer boats but they just tried to storm lorries instead prior to Brexit -have you conveniently forgotten that?

Look at the numbers involved. We left the EU December 2020.

 

[Zeberdi]

True -there were fewer boats but they just tried to storm lorries instead prior to Brexit -have you conveniently forgotten that?

Asylum seekers wanting to get to the UK pre-Brexit was a massive problem, both for the French and for the 9,000 plus refugees living in the huge Calais refuge camp where conditions were intolerable but for us not so much - (this camp was broken up in 2016 and refugees dispersed to other regions) - and it is perfectly true to say that at the height of the migrant crisis in 2015, they weren’t crossing by boats/drowning in the sea but they were largely held up in refugee camps in France because by 2018, already increased security measures at the Tunnel had drastically reduced crossing attempts by lorry and air.

Post Brexit, the French now see asylum seekers trying to get to the UK by boat largely as a UK problem as opposed to what it was before, an EU problem - the UK now pays the French to police the coastline (ironic when the point if Brexit apparently was to save money) but policing the French coast alone will not solve the problem - there is also post Brexit, nothing to replace the Dublin agreement to allow the UK to send migrants back to France (although the impact of this might be negligible) - (the Government has set up a deal with Albania apparently to send Albanians who arrive in small boats back to Albania which accounts for a significant % of small boat migrants).

So while the back log of asylum claims in the UK were already huge, and it was the increased security cooperation with the French that reduced undocumented migrants coming to the UK by road or air which in turn probably led to small boat crossings as the alternative route, reduction in cooperation post-Brexit compounded the problem and the current numbers now arriving by cross-Channel small boats, an inherently more dangerous endeavour than climbing into the back of a lorry, certainly doesn’t live up to the Brexit mantra of ‘taking back control over our borders’ - for that alone, Brexit could be argued is a failed policy.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

True -there were fewer boats but they just tried to storm lorries instead prior to Brexit -have you conveniently forgotten that?

Have you 'conveniently forgotten' to post links to the surveys you mentioned?

 

[Guinness Boy]

True -there were fewer boats but they just tried to storm lorries instead prior to Brexit -have you conveniently forgotten that?

According to the government themselves the real issue around the boats isn’t the brown people in them but the people smugglers. Looks like Brexit improved at least one industry.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Asylum seekers wanting to get to the UK pre-Brexit was a massive problem, both for the French and for the 9,000 plus refugees living in the huge Calais refuge camp where conditions were intolerable but for us not so much - (this camp was broken up in 2016 and refugees dispersed to other regions) - and it is perfectly true to say that at the height of the migrant crisis in 2015, they weren’t crossing by boats/drowning in the sea but they were largely held up in refugee camps in France because by 2018, already increased security measures at the Tunnel had drastically reduced crossing attempts by lorry and air.

Post Brexit, the French now see asylum seekers trying to get to the UK by boat largely as a UK problem as opposed to what it was before, an EU problem - the UK now pays the French to police the coastline (ironic when the point if Brexit apparently was to save money) but policing the French coast alone will not solve the problem - there is also post Brexit, nothing to replace the Dublin agreement to allow the UK to send migrants back to France (although the impact of this might be negligible) - (the Government has set up a deal with Albania apparently to send Albanians who arrive in small boats back to Albania which accounts for a significant % of small boat migrants).

So while the back log of asylum claims in the UK were already huge, and it was the increased security cooperation with the French that reduced undocumented migrants coming to the UK by road or air which in turn probably led to small boat crossings as the alternative route, reduction in cooperation post-Brexit compounded the problem and the current numbers now arriving by cross-Channel small boats, an inherently more dangerous endeavour than climbing into the back of a lorry, certainly doesn’t live up to the Brexit mantra of ‘taking back control over our borders’ - for that alone, Brexit could be argued is a failed policy.

Such common sense is too much for Hastings gull.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Another tragedy in the channel with 4 souls lost.

If they are willing to risk their lives to get here, the threat to deport them to Rwanda won’t even touch the surface.

A worse idea than Thatcher’s poll tax but they’ve gone too far to drop it.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Another tragedy in the channel with 4 souls lost.

If they are willing to risk their lives to get here, the threat to deport them to Rwanda won’t even touch the surface.

A worse idea than Thatcher’s poll tax but they’ve gone too far to drop it.

These traffickers need to be sorted at source, preying on the weak and vulnerable. The French could be doing more to stop launches also.

 

[WATFORD zero]

These traffickers need to be sorted at source, preying on the weak and vulnerable. The French could be doing more to stop launches also.

Agree completely that these traffickers need to be stopped and the best way to stop them would be to reverse the four things that have helped them grow this disgusting business over the last few years.

Namely

Reinstate the ability to claim Asylum from abroad and let those granted asylum come into Britain, start work and contribute to Society.
Reopen legal Asylum routes to allow claimants.
Work with Interpol again to target people traffickers.
Re-employ more caseworkers to clear the backlog of applications.

If there's nobody desperately being forced to get onto their boats (similar to pre 2018 when we didn't even bother counting as the numbers were so small) then they wouldn't have this huge thriving business

 

[abc]

Another tragedy in the channel with 4 souls lost.

If they are willing to risk their lives to get here, the threat to deport them to Rwanda won’t even touch the surface.

A worse idea than Thatcher’s poll tax but they’ve gone too far to drop it.

The thing I don’t understand is why Rwanda want them or what they would do when the get there. I know a bit about the country and people and it seems so opposite to what I would expect. It’s not a subject that’s easy to bring up but when I have mentioned the subject to Rwandans I know, they know nothing about it. But the gov and president is incredibly popular

 

[Hugo Rune]

These traffickers need to be sorted at source, preying on the weak and vulnerable. The French could be doing more to stop launches also.

Agreed. But it’s difficult as they don’t seem to view it as their problem and we lost our influence with that country after the Brexit vote.

In fact, Brexit wholly created this issue. There were very few boat crossings before the vote.

When you work closely with your partners you can have a net migration of 300k, when you break international law, lie to the Queen and generally show the world you are devoid of any credibility, our European friends are not going to work with us…..Unless we bribe them of course, and even that doesn’t seem to be working properly.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The thing I don’t understand is why Rwanda want them or what they would do when the get there. I know a bit about the country and people and it seems so opposite to what I would expect. It’s not a subject that’s easy to bring up but when I have mentioned the subject to Rwandans I know, they know nothing about it. But the gov and president is incredibly popular

I think the fact that we have given them £240M for processing the sum total of zero refugees (and are no closer to sending any after the British Judiciary system found it to be illegal) may have been a factor And you are aware that we take Rwandan asylum seekers in return ?

£240M is, incidentally, well over twice the cost of processing the whole backlog of 170,000 cases if they were processed here in the UK. Something doesn't add up

 

[Stat Brother]

The thing I don’t understand is why Rwanda want them or what they would do when the get there. I know a bit about the country and people and it seems so opposite to what I would expect. It’s not a subject that’s easy to bring up but when I have mentioned the subject to Rwandans I know, they know nothing about it. But the gov and president is incredibly popular

The Rwandan government are far smarter than our own.

They saw the deal for what it is - impractical, unworkable, illegal.

They said 'Oh yes you can count on us'.
'Great' we replied.
They said 'we're gonna need infrastructure'.
'Great' we replied.
They said '£200,000,000+ should cover it'
'Is that all?' we replied.
They said 'No returns'.
'We don't want them back' we replied.
They said 'we meant the money, as nobody will ever come'.



'No probs we'll just blame Starmer' we replied.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Lord Cameron has just been on radio 5 to say "We've got to stop the boats"

Is this a new idea?

(No. They have been saying it for years. I can only assume that they think that if they say it often enough it will seed in peoples' minds the need for a Final Solution.

Yes, we've got to sink the boats. It's what *everybody* craves. The British people have no time for creating international arrangements with the likes of the French.

Sink the boats. Sink them now).

 

[Eric the meek]

Lord Cameron has just been on radio 5 to say "We've got to stop the boats"

Is this a new idea?

(No. They have been saying it for years. I can only assume that they think that if they say it often enough it will seed in peoples' minds the need for a Final Solution.

Yes, we've got to sink the boats. It's what *everybody* craves. The British people have no time for creating international arrangements with the likes of the French.

Sink the boats. Sink them now).

You're going to have to come up with more extreme views than that.

A few years ago, Priti Patel came up with the idea of a wave machine to deter the boats. She evidently thought that asylum seekers hadn't undergone enough trauma sailing over treacherous waters, so the ones that survive should be hit by big waves as they approach our shores.

Thankfully, the idea was rejected.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Lord Cameron has just been on radio 5 to say "We've got to stop the boats"

Is this a new idea?

(No. They have been saying it for years. I can only assume that they think that if they say it often enough it will seed in peoples' minds the need for a Final Solution.

Yes, we've got to sink the boats. It's what *everybody* craves. The British people have no time for creating international arrangements with the likes of the French.

Sink the boats. Sink them now).

You're channeling your inner Not The Nine O'Clock News there H. Slice them off!

 

[abc]

I think the fact that we have given them £240M for processing the sum total of zero refugees (and are no closer to sending any after the British Judiciary system found it to be illegal) may have been a factor And you are aware that we take Rwandan asylum seekers in return ?

£240M is, incidentally, well over twice the cost of processing the whole backlog of 170,000 cases if they were processed here in the UK. Something doesn't add up

I wasn’t aware that we take Rwandan asylum seekers. Is that theoretical or in practice? Not sure why a Rwandan would need asylum though.
I guess, as you suggest, the motivation for Rwanda is financial and very clever of them if they don’t end up taking any. We talk so much about how the policy is wrong from a Uk perspective but I also see it as a policy whereby a wealthy nation is trying to dump its problems on a poorer one. I fear the poorer one will be the ultimate loser. Rwanda is, IMHO, a country that we could learn a great deal from but I fear we could teach them very little.