Stewards!

[NMH]

I'm not banned from there, Sonny Jim (I too can play the patronising card). Sorry but just because you wish something doesn't make it happen.

Did you answer my point about the gulf between you lecturing people about social norms and your behaviour on here?

No.

And you appeared to miss the subtle reference to the fact that you were rebuking someone for commenting on an incident they didn't witness, yet how many times have you given your opinions on stewarding incidents you have absolutely no first hand ......

You get the picture. You bore me with your smileys, your bigotry and your crap youtube hotlinks no-one watches. Anyway. I'm off out with family and friends. They kind of act as a substitute for being a real man with no chums or family like you.

Ta-ra.

Interesting - coming from someone who kept pally pally at me, even offering to buy me a beer when I saw you in Hove? Remember 'wanting to meet me for a beer' at that Preston Park joint, "chum"??

What changed darling?
Oh that's right - I didn't take your side about 'hat-gate' !!

Selective fellow, oh how I MISS having YOU as a 'pal' luv.

Oh, and I already apologised to the hairdressers for counting you among their number.
Merry merry, Good Queen Ponceslas.

 

[Box of Frogs]

 

[NMH]

........
In most cases they don't have a choice and are acting with regards to their employers requests.............

If you won't mind me just bringing that to your attention, it does go a little further up than simply employers actually.
The rules to stand by and enforce or regard, are laid out by other bodies as well - including the Brighton and Hove Council, the police, the club's safety policies, and League ground regulations.
There are many modules of training and an NVQ to get through.... and that's just the regular stewards, then there are SIA courses (you see them wearing a shiny card on the arm) and CCTV operator requirements.

Obviously certain judgement calls are down to the individual stewards at football, but they are fairly stringently guided by training.

Fans on this thread have been putting forward requests that stewards marshall the away fans in their stand, yet - then people complain that they waded in without justification on the away fans, at one match!

It's a matter of match-day stewards representing authority, working among people who resent authority.

 

[Dandyman]

If you won't mind me just bringing that to your attention, it does go a little further up than simply employers actually.
The rules to stand by and enforce or regard, are laid out by other bodies as well - including the Brighton and Hove Council, the police, the club's safety policies, and League ground regulations.
There are many modules of training and an NVQ to get through.... and that's just the regular stewards, then there are SIA courses (you see them wearing a shiny card on the arm) and CCTV operator requirements.

Obviously certain judgement calls are down to the individual stewards at football, but they are fairly stringently guided by training.

Fans on this thread have been putting forward requests that stewards marshall the away fans in their stand, yet - then people complain that they waded in without justification on the away fans, at one match!

It's a matter of match-day stewards representing authority, working among people who resent authority.

For the record there are plenty of us that regard the "tell the xxx fans to sit down" chant as one of the most embarrassing, cringe worthy, school swot pieces of shite that we think of.

That aside what actual sanctions have been enforced on clubs that experience regular standing? To the best of my knowledge there is little other than threatening to reduce capacity that the authorities can do, which at Withdean is surely something of an empty threat?

 

[raymondbriggs]

standing takes place at Premier League games,at EUEFA sanctioned champions league games and also during last seasons european championship finals,standing takes place at FIFA sanctioned world cup finals and qualifiers, standing takes place at Withdean on the walkway at the back of the Northstand and to the west of the Radio Shack ( club employees apparently).
Common sense takes place,and petty rules are ignored,throughout the football world-except the south stand at withdean- and no serious sanctions are EVER taken against any club.

Please dont come back with the old Sunderland reducing the allocation of tickets for Manure fans crap,the plod will use any excuse to make that game go quieter.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Its obvious you need trained organised stewards at public venues but please don't try and tell me that at football matches getting fans to sit down is only for safety reasons.

People stand at gigs and concerts and on X factor tonight the audience stood the whole way through and I didn't see six orange stewards dragging Cheryl out and ejecting her.

Its about control - you are made to sit so its obvious when any trouble may start, you are forced to sit down so you can be filmed and photographed in the event of anyone starting a riot.

Seating makes it difficult to be with your mates, it stops you grouping together or organising anything that might be difficult to control if it got out of hand. You can put a face a name and address to a seat and that makes it easy to catch, convict and ban someone.

Its that sort of control that makes going to football these days a less exciting and fun and mostly souless than it used to be and some of the stewarding at Withdean is so over done as that amount of control at that ground is not necessary.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

For the record there are plenty of us that regard the "tell the xxx fans to sit down" chant as one of the most embarrassing, cringe worthy, school swot pieces of shite that we think of.

That aside what actual sanctions have been enforced on clubs that experience regular standing? To the best of my knowledge there is little other than threatening to reduce capacity that the authorities can do, which at Withdean is surely something of an empty threat?

Man U have had their capacity reduced at least once for constant standing.

 

[Arong692]

Andywhingforengland. In what part of my message did i write that i was scared of stewards?

 

[Storer68]

Can I just add that the reason we now have all seater stadia, is because TOO MANY PEOPLE DIED IN STANDING ENCLOSURES AT FOOTBALL MATCHES.

you can bleat as much as you lIke about stewards enforcing the ground regulations (which is their role) but I'd rather have a steward throw me out of a ground than an ambulance driver

 

[Dandyman]

Can I just add that the reason we now have all seater stadia, is because TOO MANY PEOPLE DIED IN STANDING ENCLOSURES AT FOOTBALL MATCHES.

you can bleat as much as you lIke about stewards enforcing the ground regulations (which is their role) but I'd rather have a steward throw me out of a ground than an ambulance driver

How old are you ? people died at Hillsborough because of fences and the criminal neglect of the South Yorkshire Police not because of terraces. Other disasters such as Ibrox had nothing to with terraces per se and a lot to do with poorly maintained grounds and inadequate safety regimes.

 

[NMH]

For the record there are plenty of us that regard the "tell the xxx fans to sit down" chant as one of the most embarrassing, cringe worthy, school swot pieces of shite that we think of.

That aside what actual sanctions have been enforced on clubs that experience regular standing? To the best of my knowledge there is little other than threatening to reduce capacity that the authorities can do, which at Withdean is surely something of an empty threat?

There are many who find the "stand up if you hate palace" or "stewards" chants similarly embarrassing.

I can't tell you what, if any sanctions have been leveled at clubs with fans that may stand - I have only heard of OUR warnings, and of our congratulations, as applicable. I would prefer to suggest to you that we have been allowed to stay in Withdean much longer than predicted despite the objections from that irate resident Catt, and we have been given final permissions to build at Falmer, despite the achingly long and drawn out applications and objections, stones in our passway that could have spelled extinction. Those are the vital stats, rather than any tangible threats or punishments.

It's not just down to stewarding, by the way - it's also down to the good behavior of most of you fans, and compliance and understanding from 99.9% who attend - throughout a patience-stretching long period at a roofless running track with portacabin facilities!

And won't we ALL be cheering once that's behind us and we welcome the Seagulls onto the pitch at Falmer
Maaaaarvelous scenes in the offing!

 

[Brovion]

Can I just add that the reason we now have all seater stadia, is because TOO MANY PEOPLE DIED IN STANDING ENCLOSURES AT FOOTBALL MATCHES.

you can bleat as much as you lIke about stewards enforcing the ground regulations (which is their role) but I'd rather have a steward throw me out of a ground than an ambulance driver

I don't usually join in with these weekly steward-fests but I can't let that past. We've had this argument before and you know damm well that the concept of standing to watch football wasn't responsible for the deaths at Hillsborough, Ibrox, Bolton etc any more than the concept of SITTING to watch football was responsible for the deaths at Bradford City. Blame ramshackle grounds and crap policing but don't blame 'standing'.

Dandyman: With regard to sanctions I've seen quite a few Newcastle matches over the last eight or nine years and when we're in with the Newcastle away fans we always stand. I've stood at Stamford Bridge, Upton Park, Craven Cottage and White Hart Lane without ever once being asked to sit down. There have, afaik, never been any sanctions taken against Newcastle United in terms of reduced capacity or away allocation. As I say it's been going on for YEARS.

 

[Box of Frogs]

I don't usually join in with these weekly steward-fests but I can't let that past. We've had this argument before and you know damm well that the concept of standing to watch football wasn't responsible for the deaths at Hillsborough, Ibrox, Bolton etc any more than the concept of SITTING to watch football was responsible for the deaths at Bradford City. Blame ramshackle grounds and crap policing but don't blame 'standing'.

Dandyman: With regard to sanctions I've seen quite a few Newcastle matches over the last eight or nine years and when we're in with the Newcastle away fans we always stand. I've stood at Stamford Bridge, Upton Park, Craven Cottage and White Hart Lane without ever once being asked to sit down. There have, afaik, never been any sanctions taken against Newcastle United in terms of reduced capacity or away allocation. As I say it's been going on for YEARS.

Just because it has been going on for years doesn't make it right.

Are their similar chat boards for Newcastle, Chelsea, West Ham et al going on about why their stewards insist that their home fans to sit down while the away fans are allowed to stand virtually unchallenged?

 

[Brovion]

Just because it has been going on for years doesn't make it right.

Are their similar chat boards for Newcastle, Chelsea, West Ham et al going on about why their stewards insist that their home fans to sit down while the away fans are allowed to stand virtually unchallenged?

I think you miss my point. Leaving aside the issue of 'right' or 'wrong' Dandyman was asking whether any club had ever had sanctions imposed on it because of persistent standing by fans. I was saying that to my knowledge sanctions had never been imposed on Newcastle, despite the fact that their away fans have flouted the regulations for years.

 

[Husty]

Just because it has been going on for years doesn't make it right.

Are their similar chat boards for Newcastle, Chelsea, West Ham et al going on about why their stewards insist that their home fans to sit down while the away fans are allowed to stand virtually unchallenged?

No because the home fans are allowed to stand as well. Our club appears to buck the trend and that is what frustrates so many

 

[Dandyman]

I think you miss my point. Leaving aside the issue of 'right' or 'wrong' Dandyman was asking whether any club had ever had sanctions imposed on it because of persistent standing by fans. I was saying that to my knowledge sanctions had never been imposed on Newcastle, despite the fact that their away fans have flouted the regulations for years.

Sounds right to me. It's a while since I've been to WHL but there has certainly been prolonged standing there with less fuss than at Withdean.

 

[Storer68]

How old are you ? people died at Hillsborough because of fences and the criminal neglect of the South Yorkshire Police not because of terraces. Other disasters such as Ibrox had nothing to with terraces per se and a lot to do with poorly maintained grounds and inadequate safety regimes.

46 and old enough to know personally just how dangerous a crush situation can be in a football stadium.

They died at hillsborough because too many people were corralled into an area that was already full. if it had been a seated area (as it was upstairs at the Leppings lane End, that could not have happened - regardless of the "best intentions" of the South Yorkshire police.

and people also died at Burnden Park (Bolton) - nothing to do with fencing (COS THERE WEREN'T Any) but everything to do with trying to force too many people into an area that was already full. Which can't happen in seating areas

 

[Kukev31]

Man U have had their capacity reduced at least once for constant standing.

I am virtually certain this is just not true, but prove me wrong if you can.

 

[Kukev31]

46 and old enough to know personally just how dangerous a crush situation can be in a football stadium.

They died at hillsborough because too many people were corralled into an area that was already full. if it had been a seated area (as it was upstairs at the Leppings lane End, that could not have happened - regardless of the "best intentions" of the South Yorkshire police.

and people also died at Burnden Park (Bolton) - nothing to do with fencing (COS THERE WEREN'T Any) but everything to do with trying to force too many people into an area that was already full. Which can't happen in seating areas

But this doesn't have anything to do with whether it's unsafe to actually stand up infront of your seat.

 

[Storer68]

I am virtually certain this is just not true, but prove me wrong if you can.

United avoid stadium closure

Published: 11:34AM GMT 14 Mar 2001

TRAFFORD Metropolitan Borough Council has lifted its threat to close parts of Old Trafford after the vast majority of Manchester United fans sat down during the club's 3-0 win over Sturm Graz on Tuesday night.

The council had threatened to close sections of the upper West and lower East stands because of the safety risk caused by persistent standing but last night officers reported a substantial improvement in the number of fans keeping their seats.


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Council orders pensioners to clean up graffiti or face £1,000 finesCouncillor Barry Brotherton, who is the council cabinet minister with responsibility for community safety, announced that Trafford would not be serving any order to shut down parts of the ground and thanked Sir Alex Ferguson for appealing to the fans before the game and at half-time.

"The council officers who attended the game were pleased with the way the fans behaved," said Brotherton. "There were far less people standing. Some people did stand, but it was far better.

"We've not had the meeting to decide what to do, but it's safe to say now that we will not be serving a notice to close down parts of the ground.

"Sir Alex Ferguson's appeal was heeded by the fans and I thank him for that and I would also like to thank the fans. They showed a very responsible attitude."

The United manager was also happy with the crowd's reaction, saying: "They showed they can participate in a game just as well sitting as they can standing.

"The did sit, OK they got up now and again, but that's what we want to see. I thought they did very well and I'm very pleased."

However, some groups of fans showed their displeasure by unfurling a banner in the upper West stand, which read: "Chris Smith listen: safe standing now", referring to the decision by the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport to ignore calls for standing areas at football grounds.

Mark Longden, chairman of the Independent Manchester United Supporters Association (IMUSA), said: "All the council's threat of closure has done is treat the symptoms and not the problem.

"The problem is people want to stand up and come the quarter-finals if we're playing Real Madrid and we're 2-1 down from the first leg, you're going to get 20 to 30,000 people standing and an appeal from the Pope or the Queen would not make any difference.

"We're not talking about standing areas for 30,000, but small areas at the bottom of stands of, I would imagine, 4-5,000 maximum. This would go a long way to alleviate the problem of standing in seated areas, which everyone knows is dangerous."