Stewards - Thugs

[paddy]

No doubt.

I was making the point that the restraint techniques that I saw in action yesterday seemed to me to be consistent with the techniques that I am familiar with (as an observer) from my knowledge of the training that used to be given to social services staff. To describe yesterday's events as an assault is not accurate.

Did the steward intentionally or recklessly apply force? Yes. Was the force reasonable? Subjective, but running 20 yards to restrain an individual who was walking off peacefully accompanied by two other stewards with police no more than 20 meters away does not strike me as reasonable.

 

[steward 433]

Did the steward intentionally or recklessly apply force? Yes. Was the force reasonable? Subjective, but running 20 yards to restrain an individual who was walking off peacefully accompanied by two other stewards with police no more than 20 meters away does not strike me as reasonable.

A response steward needs to be there for the ejection/handover to police

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Common Assault can be satisfied either when
(1) The individual causes the victim to apprehend immeidate and unlawful violence, or
(2) When an individual intentionally or recklessly applies force.

By your use of this, someone slapping your hand in a high five is guilty of common assult

The reality is that there is alot more to it, it has to do with facters such as if there is a justification for the level of force used, and if the amount used was reasonable, which putting someone into an armlock to escort them to police officers is entirely justified and therefore not common assult.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No doubt.

I was making the point that the restraint techniques that I saw in action yesterday seemed to me to be consistent with the techniques that I am familiar with (as an observer) from my knowledge of the training that used to be given to social services staff. To describe yesterday's events as an assault is not accurate.

Please note I didnt suggest it was assult. My arguement is that in this case the restraining techniques used seemed inappropriate for someone who was leaving the pitch and also applied with way too much force and enthusiasm. The high five and general post-event body language felt a bit uncomfortable as well.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

What a load of rubbish - is this the assult that people are referring to?

If you were a shop lifter for example, you would be detained by under cover security who would use an armlock to detain you until you could be taken somewhere to be held until the police arrived, or the bouncers at a club would use it to remove someone from a club if causing trouble.

The reason, it is the safest way to control someone who you are looking to detain, and is the widely used best practice, it minimises the risk of injury, relying on pressure points rather than brute force, and therefore also stops the detainee from fleeing when they feel that the opportunity exists, as would have probably happened if the pitch invader was just escorted to the police without any form of restraining.

What if, this guy after running to a couple of the players then ran upto the ref and punched him, what do you think the ramifications for the club would be, Points deductions, fines, playing behind closed doors? - surely better to apprehend a pitch invader as fast as you can and deal with them in a professional manner, the stewards are just doing their jobs.

Lets not re invent what ACTUALLY hapened as people DO NOT SEEM TO BE LISTENING. Tom has repeated time and time again and I will say it again, one more time, the sappy kid was already restrained and being led off the pitch very successfully by a couple of responsible stewards when Claude Van Damme charges up and grabs the lad and frog marches him off whilst roughing him up and trying his best to bust his arm by bending and twisting it behind his back in a gratuitous manner. When he had handed him over to the Police he strode back chest puffed out and high fived a fellow steward. The stands did not like it and at least a dozen fans charged to the front giving the steward severe abuse and finger pointing. The steward could have caused and did to a cetain extent cause a serious breach of the peace. This was all totally unnecssary and people who say he was just doing his job could not have been there or seen the incident. This steward was a total cock and should be taken off the services of BHAFC immediately. Lets not dress it up to be any other than what it was. Common assault.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Please note I didnt suggest it was assult. My arguement is that in this case the restraining techniques used seemed inappropriate for someone who was leaving the pitch and also applied with way too much force and enthusiasm. The high five and general post-event body language felt a bit uncomfortable as well.

How should he have been escorted off then? - in a headlock? or with stewards holding him by the legs and arms and carrying off?

He tried to escape before being rugby tackled originally, so do you think that he would just walk over to the police for them to arrest him?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

How many more times do I have to say it. he was already restrained by two stewards when the other steward took it up himself to run 30 yards and have a piece of the action and assaulted the lad pure and simple.

 

[paddy]

By your use of this, someone slapping your hand in a high five is guilty of common assult

The reality is that there is alot more to it, it has to do with facters such as if there is a justification for the level of force used, and if the amount used was reasonable, which putting someone into an armlock to escort them to police officers is entirely justified and therefore not common assult.

It is not my use of it, that is the legal definition of common assault. Of course no one would ever be convicted for high fiving a friend, although that was the way the steward in question chose to celebrate his restraint, and other factors are indeed taken into account. However, running 20 yards and restraining an individual who is co-operating and leaving peacefully is clearly unreasonable and over zealous and satisfies the technical requirement for an assault.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Lets not re invent what ACTUALLY hapened as people DO NOT SEEM TO BE LISTENING. Tom has repeated time and time again and I will say it again, one more time, the sappy kid was already restrained and being led off the pitch very successfully by a couple of responsible stewards when Claude Van Damme charges up and grabs the lad and frog marches him off whilst roughing him up and trying his best to bust his arm by bending and twisting it behind his back in a gratuitous manner. When he had handed him over to the Police he strode back chest puffed out and high fived a fellow steward. The stands did not like it and at least a dozen fans charged to the front giving the steward severe abuse and finger pointing. The steward could have caused and did to a cetain extent cause a serious breach of the peace. This was all totally unnecssary and people who say he was just doing his job could not have been there or seen the incident. This steward was a total cock and should be taken off the services of BHAFC immediately. Lets not dress it up to be any other than what it was. Common assault.

This doesn't seem to me that this thread has anything to do with if someone was assulted or not, more that they are unhappy that the stewards high fived each other after, especially given that there is already some fans who are hostile towards the stewards already for doing their jobs, whether removing someone from the pitch, or getting people to sit down in an all seater stadium, - Just seems like some fans just have a problem with people in authority.

 

[PCBEARDMLORD]

Brilliant, the thread for the game is two pages, this one is now 11 !!!

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Were going round in circle here. I'm off, have a good summer

 

[paddy]

A response steward needs to be there for the ejection/handover to police

So why did response stewards closer to the incident judge the two stewards who were delaing with the lad as doing a perfectly acceptable job and not intervene themselves. The reality of the situation is a response steward saw an opportunity to use a technique he has learnt and impress his peers with an unnecessary restraint. How can anyone justify him steaming in on a situation which was already under control when response stewards closer felt the situation was perfectly acceptable. Common assault without a shadow of a doubt.

 

[PCBEARDMLORD]

Anyone can report an assault to the Police, if you feel that strongly why don't you report the steward and let the Police deal !! Looks like some of you had a good view and will obviously be willing to attend court as witnesses ?? That should ensure the Steward is dealt with properly...

 

[Guy Fawkes]

So why did response stewards closer to the incident judge the two stewards who were delaing with the lad as doing a perfectly acceptable job and not intervene themselves. The reality of the situation is a response steward saw an opportunity to use a technique he has learnt and impress his peers with an unnecessary restraint. How can anyone justify him steaming in on a situation which was already under control when response stewards closer felt the situation was perfectly acceptable. Common assault without a shadow of a doubt.

It would only be common assult if he was found guilty in a court of law, not the kangeroo court of NCS, and the police saw nothing wrong when the incident happened so no it wasn't

 

[steward 433]

So why did response stewards closer to the incident judge the two stewards who were delaing with the lad as doing a perfectly acceptable job and not intervene themselves. The reality of the situation is a response steward saw an opportunity to use a technique he has learnt and impress his peers with an unnecessary restraint. How can anyone justify him steaming in on a situation which was already under control when response stewards closer felt the situation was perfectly acceptable. Common assault without a shadow of a doubt.

Maybe because they were assigned to a different role. And as i have said before a response steward needs to handover to the police.

Like said above if you feel that strongly write to the club and report him to the police

 

[PCBEARDMLORD]

I love the way some people on here think they are experts at everything. The Albion Stewards are trained to do there job. They are asked to deal with all sorts of incidents and paid pretty shit to do it. How would you like it if one of them came to your place of work and criticised what you do

Well done Albion Stewards, if the little shit can't read then he deserved what he got. Stay off the Pitch.

 

[steward 433]

I love the way some people on here think they are experts at everything. The Albion Stewards are trained to do there job. They are asked to deal with all sorts of incidents and paid pretty shit to do it. How would you like it if one of them came to your place of work and criticised what you do

Well done Albion Stewards, if the little shit can't read then he deserved what he got. Stay off the Pitch.

Thank you

At least some people actually appreciate without us you would't be able to watch a game. And the fact you recognise we ARE properly trained.

 

[paddy]

Thank you

At least some people actually appreciate without us you would't be able to watch a game. And the fact you recognise we ARE properly trained.

433, my comments were never levelled at stewards at Withdean in general, just this particular steward's actions in one incident. I certianly appreciate the fantastic work you do in difficult circumstances. Anyway i doubt we will ever agree on steward's restraining fans so i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[m20gull]

Please note I didnt suggest it was assult. My arguement is that in this case the restraining techniques used seemed inappropriate for someone who was leaving the pitch and also applied with way too much force and enthusiasm. The high five and general post-event body language felt a bit uncomfortable as well.

I would agree with this summary especially the word inappropriate.

 

[who me?]

thats is the trouble with NSC

to many wanker stewards who push their lies but dont reveal that they are BIASED paid employees

I GIVE YOU NMH as an example