[Albion] Statistics don't lie!!!!!!

[Neville's Breakfast]

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So which team lost 5-1

The one that scored only 1 goal. That’s what football is all about.

 

[PFW]

They had 5 shots on target, 4 shots went in and one was blocked by Dunk. The OG wouldn't have counted as a shot on target.

Was our goal counted as a shot on target!!!

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

It definitely wasn't a smash and grab. That gives us way too much credit. Everton were in total control in the first half. They allowed us the ball as they were defensively incredibly comfortable and when they had the ball they were fast, powerful and incisive. They cut us open time and again.

The second half was different, we dominated the ball and made their defense work hard. They weren't comfortable but had the three goal cushion and were able to exploit the space behind us the few times they were able to get hold of the ball.

It was a thoroughly deserved win for Everton.

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

It was a classic Dyche smash and grab raid. Their counter attacking was excellent, our defending wasn't.

More like a smash and grab, grab, grab, grab and grab!

 

[Seagull58]

5 shots on target each. They scored every shot past our keeper (according to these stats but I thought Steele had a couple saves?). Who do you think had the better quality chances? Generally a team on the fast break has higher xG per shot than a team trying to break down a low block.

The little raptor armed one made some amazing stops and our keeper kicked it nicely to our players, to then pause.

They didn't score with every shot. One of their goals was a cutback that Steele brilliantly kneed into his own goal because "he's good with his feet". Shame he doesn't use his arms occasionally.

 

[Gabbafella]

You're thinking of hips, it's hips don't lie.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Had Everton finished like that for their other matches this season, they would have easily sewn up the title by now, Haaland or no Haaland.

Even without the improved finishing, had Pickford shown that sort of form over the whole season, they would certainly be mid table.

It's a funny old game

 

[Weststander]

It definitely wasn't a smash and grab. That gives us way too much credit. Everton were in total control in the first half. They allowed us the ball as they were defensively incredibly comfortable and when they had the ball they were fast, powerful and incisive. They cut us open time and again.

The second half was different, we dominated the ball and made their defense work hard. They weren't comfortable but had the three goal cushion and were able to exploit the space behind us the few times they were able to get hold of the ball.

It was a thoroughly deserved win for Everton.

I’d go further, they were fine with the second half too.

At HT Dyche clearly instructed for a low block of literally 8 or 9 players. All giants. He knew the law of averages meant we wouldn’t be able to score goals (plural). He just carried on what Mee, Tarkowski etc did at Burnley.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

I’d go further, they were fine with the second half too.

At HT Dyche clearly instructed for a low block of literally 8 or 9 players. All giants. He knew the law of averages meant we wouldn’t be able to score goals (plural). He just carried on what Mee, Tarkowski etc did at Burnley.

It's funny how the same manager can use the precise template to get a virtually identical outcome against us, for a different club, even though we've got a new manager as well.

 

[Berty23]

Anyone commenting that stats are meaningless should explain that to Tony bloom and sack all data analysts at the club. If we did that then we would stop identifying players that other clubs don’t and have to pay silly fees and wages to get good players. It is probably worth it though because a team overturned xg, possession and shots etc.

 

[pasty]

Any stats on results when we’ve been forced to attack north goal in first half?

Had a horrible feeling it was going to be one of those days as soon as that happened.

 

[Weststander]

It's funny how the same manager can use the precise template to get a virtually identical outcome against us, for a different club, even though we've got a new manager as well.

The old adage about earning the right to win and people who’ve played the game as pros have said that to me. The first challenges, being 100% up for the physicality. Dyche by luck or judgement ditched the smaller or shit players eg Tom Davies. Instead playing 10 huge athletes. Some of whom have cost a bit eg Iwobi, Doucoure, Onana, they’re good players ruined by Lampard. He was able to play his best 11, injuries cleared up, with Coleman injured (but old and loathed by lots on grandoldteam). They were in our faces, combative from the off. He identified a unique to us scenario where Mitoma/Estupinan both push up 80 yards and boy did they exploit that. Our risk-reward football caught out, but going by RDZ’s touchline fury, that positioning and cover was not as planned.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I’d go further, they were fine with the second half too.

At HT Dyche clearly instructed for a low block of literally 8 or 9 players. All giants. He knew the law of averages meant we wouldn’t be able to score goals (plural). He just carried on what Mee, Tarkowski etc did at Burnley.

I agree it was definitely there tactics to let us have the ball in both halves. I think the difference was in the first half they were able to win it back quite easily and then create dangerous opportunities with it at ease. Although we had more of the ball they dealt with us comfortably and were never under any pressure.

In the second half we were a lot sharper, played at a greater pace and didn't allow them to win the ball so easily. They had to fight for it and most of the time it was blocks and tackles that stopped us rather than interceptions and picking up loose balls. For a large part of the second half we had them penned in, we won the second balls and most of the time they weren't able to build anything, they just had to clear it and reset.

They dealt with that second half pressure well but unlike in the first half we created a number of really good opportunities, Pickford pulled off four magnificent saves, a couple of them outrageously good.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if one of those had gone in to make it 3-1 with 25 minutes to play. Ultimately I don't think it would have done much to change the result, just the scoreline and morale. But it didn't happen, Pickford like his outfield team mates, did his job very well and ultimately they got the win they deserved.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

The old adage about earning the right to win and people who’ve played the game as pros have said that to me. The first challenges, being 100% up for the physicality. Dyche by luck or judgement ditched the smaller or shit players eg Tom Davies. Instead playing 10 huge athletes. Some of whom have cost a bit eg Iwobi, Doucoure, Onana, they’re good players ruined by Lampard. He was able to play his best 11, injuries cleared up, with Coleman injured (but old and loathed by lots on grandoldteam). They were in our faces, combative from the off. He identified a unique to us scenario where Mitoma/Estupinan both push up 80 yards and boy did they exploit that. Our risk-reward football caught out, but going by RDZ’s touchline fury, that positioning and cover was not as planned.

I suppose my point was that if you rewind a year, a different set of players successfully implemented an indistinguishable game plan for Dyche at the Amex

 

[Bold Seagull]

Anyone commenting that stats are meaningless should explain that to Tony bloom and sack all data analysts at the club. If we did that then we would stop identifying players that other clubs don’t and have to pay silly fees and wages to get good players. It is probably worth it though because a team overturned xg, possession and shots etc.

Tony Bloom's great skill isn't looking at stats the way most people do. These stats are meaningless because they don't contain the context of the game.

For this game you'd ideally need statistics for the first 35mins when the 3 goals were scored to give you a picture of the context of the game. Those 3 goals meant one team took control and the other got desperate. They don't tell a story of one team dominating because the other team was happy to let them think they were doing that.

 

[Weststander]

I agree it was definitely there tactics to let us have the ball in both halves. I think the difference was in the first half they were able to win it back quite easily and then create dangerous opportunities with it at ease. Although we had more of the ball they dealt with us comfortably and were never under any pressure.

In the second half we were a lot sharper, played at a greater pace and didn't allow them to win the ball so easily. They had to fight for it and most of the time it was blocks and tackles that stopped us rather than interceptions and picking up loose balls. For a large part of the second half we had them penned in, we won the second balls and most of the time they weren't able to build anything, they just had to clear it and reset.

They dealt with that second half pressure well but unlike in the first half we created a number of really good opportunities, Pickford pulled off four magnificent saves, a couple of them outrageously good.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if one of those had gone in to make it 3-1 with 25 minutes to play. Ultimately I don't think it would have done much to change the result, just the scoreline and morale. But it didn't happen, Pickford like his outfield team mates, did his job very well and ultimately they got the win they deserved.

What did you think of our crossing and corners in the second half? I watched RDZ, he was furious.

We know scoring directly from those is very rare (somewhere here often mentions numbers) and we’re particularly weak in that aspect …. CB’s heading open goals into row M. But against Dyche’s basketball team it was even more fraught.

We’re not professional tacticians so don’t know the solutions against low block teams.

The bottom line I suppose is don’t go goals down against Dyche/Franks teams, you’ll never recover. Get your defensive house in order from KO.

 

[Weststander]

I suppose my point was that if you rewind a year, a different set of players successfully implemented an indistinguishable game plan for Dyche at the Amex

Oh yes, I did understand that

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

What did you think of our crossing and corners in the second half? I watched RDZ, he was furious.

We know scoring directly from those is very rare (somewhere here often mentions numbers) and we’re particularly weak in that aspect …. CB’s heading open goals into row M. But against Dyche’s basketball team it was even more fraught.

We’re not professional tacticians so don’t know the solutions against low block teams.

The bottom line I suppose is don’t go goals down against Dyche/Franks teams, you’ll never recover. Get your defensive house in order from KO.

We'll have to work out a way, because all but the top teams will want to do exactly that to us.

Floaty crosses from miles out are unlikely to be the answer against opponents like that.

 

[Bold Seagull]

What did you think of our crossing and corners in the second half? I watched RDZ, he was furious.

We know scoring directly from those is very rare (somewhere here often mentions numbers) and we’re particularly weak in that aspect …. CB’s heading open goals into row M. But against Dyche’s basketball team it was even more fraught.

We’re not professional tacticians so don’t know the solutions against low block teams.

The bottom line I suppose is don’t go goals down against Dyche/Franks teams, you’ll never recover. Get your defensive house in order from KO.

It springs to mind 3 games at the Amex this year; Leicester 5-2, Brentford 3-3, Everton 1-5.

In each game we were caught cold early in the game and went behind. They were probably similar opening goals tbh (although I'm guessing a bit). In both the Leicester and Brentford games we responded, but also got caught again.

What didn't happen against Everton was carrying that same intensity of threat that the other 2 games had. We are going to make mistakes in most games, but to make so many in that first 35 mins, it was like someone had saved up 5 or 6 games-worths of mistakes and chucked them all into this game.

I think this is why RDZ spoke about mentality. We can look at selections, tactics, goalkeepers and anything else, BUT, none of those matter if you keep repeating fundamental mistakes. There was no getting back yesterday simply because of the volume of mistakes.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

What did you think of our crossing and corners in the second half? I watched RDZ, he was furious.

We know scoring directly from those is very rare (somewhere here often mentions numbers) and we’re particularly weak in that aspect …. CB’s heading open goals into row M. But against Dyche’s basketball team it was even more fraught.

We’re not professional tacticians so don’t know the solutions against low block teams.

The bottom line I suppose is don’t go goals down against Dyche/Franks teams, you’ll never recover. Get your defensive house in order from KO.

I thought they were marginally better than in the first half where Mitoma would put them out of play at the back post. I didn't think putting the ball in the air was a particularly astute tactic full stop when they had so many tall players.

If we had to cross it I'd have liked drilled low crosses, cause a bit of panic. I also wanted to see us run at them more. Win free kicks in dangerous places, get them booked and then greater opportunity arises as they become reluctant to tackle. But that is my quite simplistic take on it. I suppose that whatever the plan was we didn't really carry it out.

Yeah going a goal down isn't a great start and going three down really isn't recommended!