[Help] Starter jobs in IT

[Eric the meek]

I can’t offer any information on actual companies or routes to take but it’s important to be more specific about which branch of IT we’re talking about here. It’s a bit like saying "I want a job in business", it can mean multiple things. IT could be anything from security and building/maintaining a network, to programming, web design, sys admins in a big company, quality assurance and testing, database administration, and loads more. If your son has a definite idea of what he’s good at and interested in, he can be more focused in his job searches. That said, if he's too single-minded he might be closing off avenues so there’s a balance there.

The best general advice I can give would be to be proactive. It’s no use anymore just waiting for adverts to pop up. And famously, the majority of openings are never advertised at all. Spread the word as much as possible that he’s looking for a job, and what he wants to do. Business owners/ managers like enthusiastic, proactive people. Get him to post something on local Facebook groups. Make sure he’s joined LinkedIn and create a profile that shows his best qualities. And of course make sure he has a good, eye-catching CV, and review it from time to time. Good luck to him..

When I was contracting ten years ago, LinkedIn was the standard tool recruiters used to find and filter applicants. I don't know if it's the same today.

 

[Eric the meek]

We had our products on a few thousand client desktops, so our annual (and some products Bi-annual) releases required immense amounts of regression testing to check we hadn't f***ed up any of the clients we already had

Setting up a good few thousand data sets and functional scenarios was a huge task, but once done although it obviously needed updating every release, it worked quite well and saved huge amounts of cost and effort.

Another thing people don't consider unless you have products installed on lots of disparate users, is that what may be a 'bug' in the way the system operates is normally being used by one of the clients who wants it to works that way. So you can't just fix it, you have to document it and make it a 'flagged feature' in order for it to work the right way and the wrong way

Out of interest, you didn't by any chance ever work at Equiniti in Crawley, did you?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Out of interest, you didn't by any chance ever work at Equiniti in Crawley, did you?

No, sorry

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Coding seems to have come a long way since I was at uni. It was for socially retarded males with a penchant for science fiction back in my day. Fast forward 30 years and there was a 'women in coding' meet up in my co-working space, oh my If your lad is into developing apps (for problems which do not really exist) he is in for a fun time for sure..........

 

[Eric the meek]

No, sorry

Equiniti could have done with a regression suite like you describe. Still, never mind eh? We're retired, and you know what that means!

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

I can’t offer any information on actual companies or routes to take but it’s important to be more specific about which branch of IT we’re talking about here. It’s a bit like saying "I want a job in business", it can mean multiple things. IT could be anything from security and building/maintaining a network, to programming, web design, sys admins in a big company, quality assurance and testing, database administration, and loads more. If your son has a definite idea of what he’s good at and interested in, he can be more focused in his job searches. That said, if he's too single-minded he might be closing off avenues so there’s a balance there.

The best general advice I can give would be to be proactive. It’s no use anymore just waiting for adverts to pop up. And famously, the majority of openings are never advertised at all. Spread the word as much as possible that he’s looking for a job, and what he wants to do. Business owners/ managers like enthusiastic, proactive people. Get him to post something on local Facebook groups. Make sure he’s joined LinkedIn and create a profile that shows his best qualities. And of course make sure he has a good, eye-catching CV, and review it from time to time. Good luck to him..

This is so true.

My IT career all started with writing advanced macros when Lotus 1-2-3 very first arrived on the scene (80's), within a large bank accounts department. By fluke, I found a job (company) that progressed this (and trained me) to dBase (DOS) programming, and along came Windows, so I was then trained in PowerBuilder & Oracle RDBMS and all the new GUI stuff. Another sideways (company) move switched me in to Business Analysis (SSADM et al), which then morphed in to Project Management role, still all on the software engineering side.

Next was a test manager role writing VBA scripts for automated regression testing using the IBM toolset. I'm on the fence with the VFM of this approach, expensive to setup but made iterative releases (in the new RAD/Agile world) faster.

This then expanded to embrace infrastructure, and then a datacentre build got me project managing comms (WAN & LAN) delivery. This became Programme Management with cloud transformation and the migrations from local datacentres to AWS & Azure. The new world is IaaS, PaaS and SaaS - if you can learn cloud stuff, that would be my recommendation. Oh, the Atlassian toolset is also now as important to be able to use as being able to use MS Office apps too.

To answer the O/Ps question, "how did I do it?" I'm not really sure, I had a friend's g/f give me a personal introduction for the first step after doing a couple of evening adult education courses (A-levels) - do they still do these? which got me on the career ladder. The path was mostly being in the right place at the right time (aka fate) and talking to the right people who had recruitment influence (lucky). Hard work and dedication isn't really a magic bullet, but should help you stand out - good luck!!

I too, applied for the Cobol course at Chichester in 1982 but didn't go on to do it.
Semi-retired at 49, fully retired 2 years ago ...
And I have worked (in the same company) with @WATFORD zero too

 

[WATFORD zero]

Equiniti could have done with a regression suite like you describe. Still, never mind eh? We're retired, and you know what that means!

That was only a small part of it. Our quality control recorded stats on how much development work (effort and function point) went into a particular release, the percentage of regression tests run, New functionality test resource effort, new automated tests created, when bugs were identified and fixed they were recorded against the release/service pack that introduced the error in the first place, etc etc.

After a few years of this it meant we could use all of these stats to estimate and decide on the levels and priorities of bugs in a release prior to it's release. We would then use this to adjust test and support staff accordingly to whatever we decided. It was serious stuff and people earned bonuses on getting this accurate.

No point in employing loads of clever geeks, if you're not going to use them

And I have worked (in the same company) with @WATFORD zero too

There's a few on NSC

 

[Gwylan]

I can’t offer any information on actual companies or routes to take but it’s important to be more specific about which branch of IT we’re talking about here. It’s a bit like saying "I want a job in business", it can mean multiple things. IT could be anything from security and building/maintaining a network, to programming, web design, sys admins in a big company, quality assurance and testing, database administration, and loads more. If your son has a definite idea of what he’s good at and interested in, he can be more focused in his job searches. That said, if he's too single-minded he might be closing off avenues so there’s a balance there.

This is a good point. What John really wants to do is networking (he borrowed by course books from when I did my CCNA, even though I told him it was completely out of date). He'd love to do real get his hands dirty stuff but he also likes fixing computing issue. He does tip his toe into programming but I get the sense that his heart isn't in it. I think testing is an excellent idea, he'd probably go for that. But I could also see if some cloud stuff piques his interest.

I hadn't realised so many people had done the TOPS COBOL course. I did that back in the day but soon found I liked writing about computers more than I liked programming them.

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

Equiniti could have done with a regression suite like you describe. Still, never mind eh? We're retired, and you know what that means!

Equiniti pay me my EDS pension

 

[WATFORD zero]

This is a good point. What John really wants to do is networking (he borrowed by course books from when I did my CCNA, even though I told him it was completely out of date). He'd love to do real get his hands dirty stuff but he also likes fixing computing issue. He does tip his toe into programming but I get the sense that his heart isn't in it. I think testing is an excellent idea, he'd probably go for that. But I could also see if some cloud stuff piques his interest.

I hadn't realised so many people had done the TOPS COBOL course. I did that back in the day but soon found I liked writing about computers more than I liked programming them.

Computing or Computer Weekly ?

 

[Eric the meek]

That was only a small part of it. Our quality control recorded stats on how much development work (effort and function point) went into a particular release, the percentage of regression tests run, New functionality test resource effort, new automated tests created, when bugs were identified and fixed they were recorded against the release/service pack that introduced the bug, etc etc.

After a few years of this it meant we could decide on the levels and priorities of bugs in a release prior to it's release, by using development/test resources assigned and adjust test and support staff accordingly to what we decided. It was serious stuff and people earned bonuses on getting this accurate.

No point in employing loads of clever geeks, if you're not going to use them



There's a few on NSC

Hang on a minute. That sounds like good test governance. I'm glad none of that was around when I was contracting. It allowed me to clean up at contract rates, and not give a **** when the contract came to an end. In over 20 end clients, I never came across a test management outfit that had got it as smooth running as that.

There's a company on West Street, referenced further up this thread, that employed an army of testers, but didn't have a data model on which to base their analysis function. They had a series of large flagship projects on the go, but also a dedicated team to sweep up all the bits of functionality that er, got missed in the analysis stage. Hmmm.

I did raise this with them, but then, this was the company who employed 400 people in total, and 90 of them were crammed into the IT department, and who asked me 'what animal would you like to be' at the interview.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

My son completed his Btech in IT (Level 3) in June and is looking for a starter job/apprenticeship to take the first step in IT as a career. He's not having much luck so far; he's spoken to a few companies but they're looking for graduates. He's signed up for a few job boards but there's nothing there and recruitment agencies say they only take on experienced staff. He doesn't want to go to university, partly because he doesn't want to be in debt and partly because he's a really hands-on and likes learning on the job. And yet, this is beginning to look like the only option. Any IT gurus out there who can offer advice or, even better, know of companies that take on IT trainees?

What sort of role is he after? There are numerous IT related careers so is there a particular interest or are there some things he is better at than other.

I have somehow managed a near 40 year career in mainly IT roles but I started when my clerical role got a new fangled computer system and having got involved in testing found my way into system admin. I never had the patience, ,mindset ( or interest) for programming but having good communication skills started doing more support roles, management and these days, in a role where I focus on business related strategy.

If he is finding the lack of experience a blocker, maybe consider find a volunteering opening where he can get experience which will help him stand out when people are CV sifting.

I have just signed up as a local STEM ambassador so I will look and see if there is anything on the community groups which may help.

 

[Springal]

Consider Cyber - loads of companies about and awash with money.

I saw Netbuilder mentioned and that’s a good bet

 

[Eric the meek]

Equiniti pay me my EDS pension

Good luck. If you think I'm going to put anything in writing, forget it.

 

[BiffyBoy]

As others have said the market has been terrible for tech and cyber over past 2 or so years which limits entry level jobs.

3 years ago, you could do a decent coding boot camp without a degree and build a good career.

If they have some aptitude in this area, I think this is one of the few subjects still worth going to university for. A computer science degree from a credible university will accelerate career prospects and future salary.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And this seems the appropriate thread for

What do you say to a person with a Computer Science degree ?

Big Mac and fries please

It really hasn't lost anything in 30 years

 

[Birdie Boy]

This is a good point. What John really wants to do is networking (he borrowed by course books from when I did my CCNA, even though I told him it was completely out of date). He'd love to do real get his hands dirty stuff but he also likes fixing computing issue. He does tip his toe into programming but I get the sense that his heart isn't in it. I think testing is an excellent idea, he'd probably go for that. But I could also see if some cloud stuff piques his interest.

I hadn't realised so many people had done the TOPS COBOL course. I did that back in the day but soon found I liked writing about computers more than I liked programming them.

I've been in networking for 32 years. I don't think this is entirely the way to go but is definitely a good ground upwards start although cloud networking is a big thing. I remember an interview years ago where everything was going automated but it hasn't really happened to the degree they thought. Definitely look into any free stuff on Azure or AWS for cloud. Security is a big thing everywhere, so anything Cisco, Palo Alto, Checkpoint, Juniper or Aruba with Firewall related stuff. I really don't trust the cloud for certain businesses but it is definitely the way everyone is going so definitely need to be focused on cloud security. Also definitely try Focus Group in Shoreham.

 

[North of Robertsbridge]

Around three years ago, the FTSE 100 group of information companies that I worked for relaxed their requirement for grads in entry level developer positions and included good science A-levels. Looking at the latest job ads, they are back to specifying a cs degree as a requirement. I guess that could be a reflection of the market, or maybe of the success rate with non-grad new hires, I'm really not sure

I hate to say it, but self-taught programming and scripting wouldn't have got a candidate through the first screening, even with web sites or mobile apps that they could demonstrate. I'm not saying it's not possible, and I did get to a pretty high level in the industry without a cs degree, but doing a cs degree would increase the number of opportunities by a huge factor

 

[Professor Plum]

And this seems the appropriate thread for

What do you say to a person with a Computer Science degree ?

Big Mac and fries please

It really hasn't lost anything in 30 years

Is that really true? I’ve certainly heard the same joke told about Media Studies. And I saw more than university toilet that had a scrawled note above the loo roll holder: ‘Sociology degrees. Please take one.’

But I thought Computer Science was a great option for people looking for a gateway into IT, or certainly used to be. Perhaps that’s no longer the case. It’s a long time since I did my Software Design MSc.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Is that really true? I’ve certainly heard the same joke told about Media Studies. And I saw more than university toilet that had a scrawled note above the loo roll holder: ‘Sociology degrees. Please take one.’

But I thought Computer Science was a great option for people looking for a gateway into IT, or certainly used to be. Perhaps that’s no longer the case. It’s a long time since I did my Software Design MSc.

Of course it's not, it's an old man's joke. Like Meeja, Sports and Social Meeja. Have you seen how many people are actually employed in these industries these days ?

But it's not Maths, History or the Classics, innit