[Politics] Starmer v Sunak *** Official Match Thread ***

[Is it PotG?]

Whatever happens, Starmer will say nowt and his fans will applaud, saying how wonderful he was using his cool, clinical legal experience.
He'll win 'by a street' in those eyes, despite avoiding the Abbott issue and refusing to give numbers on matters such as taxation and migration.
Well done Sir K.
Sunak knows he's done for, and the desperation will shine through.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Whatever happens, Starmer will say nowt and his fans will applaud, saying how wonderful he was using his cool, clinical legal experience.
He'll win 'by a street' in those eyes, despite avoiding the Abbott issue and refusing to give numbers on matters such as taxation and migration.
Well done Sir K.
Sunak knows he's done for, and the desperation will shine through.

Like Cleverly today?

Let’s be honest, this is tabloid headline political point scoring bollocks and I think most voters see through it.

Despite what you think, no one is changing their vote based on what Labour does with Abbott, spurious targets on immigration (they’ll need to go fluid depending on what the workforce needs) and a lack of a commitment to promise tax cuts.

The polls are suggesting a record defeat for your Tories - you are on the wrong page (their page) still. The electorate has moved on.

 

[ROSM]

But even fact checking can be open to abuse. On the LK prog last sunday they fact checked yvette cooper and Victoria atkins.

ATKINS made a huge whopper on nhs waiting lists and success rates. Wasn't just wrong but the complete opposite wrong and got a 5 second critique saying wrong. COOPER made a comment about engineering apprenticeships being down by half. It appears opinion was divided on this and had a 20 second critique about her wrongness which was a disputed order of magnitude and and the accepted numbers were between 25% and 50%

Anyone listening would have thought labour were more wrong than the tories

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But that's rubbish because that back of a fag packet aspiration tax doesn't work that simplistically in the real world, as pointed out on QT last week. The Greeks did exactly this in 2015 and it cost far more than it raised, it was a diaster and had to be reversed.

It won't simply raise 1.7B and cost 300m by those kids who miss out as parents can't afford to give their kids the best opportunity.

The millionaire parents will still be able to afford to send their kids to Eton and Eton will be just fine, but they'll be loads of parents in middle class working families who want to save every penny to send their kids to a local private school but now wont be able, and there will be loads of smaller local private schools, already close to the financial margins who will go bust, dumping all their kids on the state system and their teachers on the dole...... that has happened wherever it had been trialled, it happened in Greece a few years ago and I've absolutely no doubt it will happen here too.

As also suggested on QT, It would have been far better to tell private schools to increase private bursary places for families who can't afford to pay than killing the hopes of many middle class parents and bankrupting many smaller private schools with a typical Labour class warfare tax that's Ill thought through and in real terms will cost more than it makes.

But that has always been Labour, damaging ideological taxes.

Thank goodness that Sir Keir is not a school child aged today as maybe be wouldn't be getting the private school bursary he benefitted from.

That's quite a disingenuous last sentence from you. SKS was already at a State grammar school when it went private two years into his secondary education. Those who were already there, continued their syllabus with a bursary, until they took their exams.

 

[Bodian]

Nah, don’t agree. Need a credible opposition to provide some challenge. Labour are going to have two terms completely free of challenge as the Tories spend the next few years fighting amongst themselves.

Lib Dems may be providing this the way things are going.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Coffers empty? "Sorry there's no money left" lest we forget!

Here's one, there's many if you remove the red tinted glasses and actually bother to look!

You've fallen for the propaganda that the Tories wanted you to believe.

It is a standing joke between governments when they vacate government buildings as evidenced by Reginal Maudling in 1964.

BBC News - Treasury chief's note to successor: There's no money

news.bbc.co.uk

 

[peterward]

But surely those poor performing state schools are poor performing for several reasons... one main one being lack of investment from central government, that, whether you agree with it or not, should get improved by this tax.

Additionally, your comparison with Greece is completely ridiculous. The tax "culture" there is incomparable to the U.K.

No I don't agree it will get improved at all. If you have a break even business and the government announce they're getting an extra 20% in tax from you, they don't equate the cost of you going tits up snd then costing even more money. And not only do they get an extra 20% of f**k all, you now cost them.

There's no argument against your first statement that state schools require more funding, but the aspiration tax of VAT on private schools will end up being a bigger burden on the state than leaving it alone in a few years from now.

Just wait and see. Greece decision is entirely relevant, nobody is talking about the wider differences of our system and theirs, of course their tax system is rubbish. (And its not only Greece that did it and it failed).

It's more simplistic, Labour take the numbers as they are today and assume by adding tax everything else stays the same in which case your sums work, but they don't stay the same and private schools going to the wall of which many will isn't part of the back of a fag packet policy that will cost billions not raise it.

It's a class warfare tax.

Schools need proper funding of course, this isn't the way to do it.

 

[ROSM]

Coffers empty? "Sorry there's no money left" lest we forget!

Here's one, there's many if you remove the red tinted glasses and actually bother to look!

What Is Keir Starmer's New Position On Transgender Self-ID?

Labour's leader wants to avoid a culture war, but might not have much choice.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

The story of 'there's no money left' was David Laws going on the record about something that had been an off the record 'joke' between outgoing and incoming treasury ministers since Reginald mauling in the 60s. Then Nick Robinson (former leader of the young conservatives) making a big issue of it (which I believe he now admits her regrets)

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

No I don't agree it will get improved at all. If you have a break even business and the government announce they're getting an extra 20% in tax from you, they don't equate the cost of you going tits up snd then costing even more money. And not only do they get an extra 20% of f**k all, you now cost them.

There's no argument against your first statement that state schools require more funding, but the aspiration tax of VAT on private schools will end up being a bigger burden on the state than leaving it alone in a few years from now.

Just wait and see. Greece decision is entirely relevant, nobody is talking about the wider differences of our system and theirs, of course their tax system is rubbish. (And its not only Greece that did it and it failed).

It's more simplistic, Labour take the numbers as they are today and assume by adding tax everything else stays the same in which case your sums work, but they don't stay the same and private schools going to the wall of which many will isn't part of the back of a fag packet policy that will cost billions not raise it.

It's a class warfare tax.

Schools need proper funding of course, this isn't the way to do it.

The tax is fine and makes sense. The schools will absorb most of it, they make a lot already. Maybe a few less sports scholarships, maybe cut down on numbers of staff, but they will absorb most of the cost and the vast majority of parents can afford to pay regardless. They get huge amounts in donations and legacies anyway, its a bit like a premier league football club saying they have to raise ticket prices to break even - we all know its bollocks.

We've had a few letters from the Headmaster of our daughter's school warning us about this and trying to convince us how to vote without actually telling us how to vote. Amusing really. But we know they know we know how much money they are raking in, and its clear that they won't - can't - afford to pass all the new tax rise onto parents. They will be fine and this will blow over as they get used to the new reality. And the next Tory government won't repeal it.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

It's got nil-all written all over it

 

[Greg Bobkin]

This next debate could be election-defining.

 

[US Seagull]

Tuesday 4th June​

Sir Keir Starmer v Rishi Sunak (8pm) - ITV1

View attachment 183436

I think most people will have already decided who won this, so feel free to post your match report ahead of time if it's more convenient for you.

So where's the second Green seat expected to be? It'll feel less special if we don't have the only Green MP anymore

Never mind, found it:

New Seat Details - Bristol Central

 

[GJN1]

So where's the second Green seat expected to be? It'll feel less special if we don't have the only Green MP anymore

Bristol

 

[GJN1]

What do you think the pre-match meals will be? I suspect Starmer is a Shearer-style chicken and beans type of guy.

 

[pb21]

What do you think the pre-match meals will be? I suspect Starmer is a Shearer-style chicken and beans type of guy.

Not a curry?

 

[Simster]

Whatever happens, Starmer will say nowt and his fans will applaud, saying how wonderful he was using his cool, clinical legal experience.
He'll win 'by a street' in those eyes, despite avoiding the Abbott issue and refusing to give numbers on matters such as taxation and migration.
Well done Sir K.
Sunak knows he's done for, and the desperation will shine through.

I've told you before - in 2019 the Tory manifesto was paper thin whereas Labour fully costed their expenditure and had every detail picked over by a right wing press and their cheer leaders, who didn't even try and point out that at least they had tried to cost their plans. The result was an 80 seat Tory majority and one of the worst periods of governance we will ever see and the lesson for Labour is obviously for them not to promise anything when their time comes.

People like you are reaping what you sowed I'm afraid.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Rishi is telling porky pies , he is only 5 foot 6 tall and if you've noticed he wears trousers 4 inches too short for him as an optical illusion to make him appear taller.

 

[jcdenton08]

Rishi is telling porky pies , he is only 5 foot 6 tall and if you've noticed he wears trousers 4 inches too short for him as an optical illusion to make him appear taller.

And he’s been pictured wearing lifts in his shoes in the past.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I've told you before......

People like you are reaping what you sowed I'm afraid.

Quite aggressive opening gambit.

 

[Chicken Run]

So where's the second Green seat expected to be? It'll feel less special if we don't have the only Green MP anymore

Never mind, found it:

New Seat Details - Bristol Central

Second seat, so you don’t give Labour a chance then in Brighton Pavilion then?