[Politics] Starmer v Sunak *** Official Match Thread ***

[HeaviestTed]

Sunaks best attack should be to quote Starmers own words and policy ideas from a few years ago and what he now says today. He's flip flopped on pretty much everything, and use that to question if anyone can believe a word he says as his track record shows he never sticks to policy ideas or previous positions.

That would be more effective than simply parroting "he has no plan".

It won't change the grand scheme of events and auto cue Kier won't struggle to find multiple attack vectors on a useless PM nobody voted for.

Have you got any examples? (Examples shouldn’t include cases where the tories have left the coffers empty so their hands are tied)

 

[GJN1]

Starmer needs to park the campaign bus. Keep it tight.

 

[pocketseagull]

Have you got any examples? (Examples shouldn’t include cases where the tories have left the coffers empty so their hands are tied)

Also, relevant given the 'empty coffers'

Increasing income tax for the top five per cent of earners​

Another of Keir Starmer’s 10 key pledges while running for leader was to increase income tax for the top five per cent of earners.

In fact, it was the first sentence of his first pledge.

 

[peterward]

Apparently they've calculated that it generates £1.6billion, take away the estimated cost of some private school kids priced out and then going to state school (approx £200/300 million). So a decent chunk of change to employ a few more teachers in state education!

But that's rubbish because that back of a fag packet aspiration tax doesn't work that simplistically in the real world, as pointed out on QT last week. The Greeks did exactly this in 2015 and it cost far more than it raised, it was a diaster and had to be reversed.

It won't simply raise 1.7B and cost 300m by those kids who miss out as parents can't afford to give their kids the best opportunity.

The millionaire parents will still be able to afford to send their kids to Eton and Eton will be just fine, but they'll be loads of parents in middle class working families who want to save every penny to send their kids to a local private school but now wont be able, and there will be loads of smaller local private schools, already close to the financial margins who will go bust, dumping all their kids on the state system and their teachers on the dole...... that has happened wherever it had been trialled, it happened in Greece a few years ago and I've absolutely no doubt it will happen here too.

As also suggested on QT, It would have been far better to tell private schools to increase private bursary places for families who can't afford to pay than killing the hopes of many middle class parents and bankrupting many smaller private schools with a typical Labour class warfare tax that's Ill thought through and in real terms will cost more than it makes.

But that has always been Labour, damaging ideological taxes.

Thank goodness that Sir Keir is not a school child aged today as maybe be wouldn't be getting the private school bursary he benefitted from.

 

[Happy Exile]

I'm hoping Starmer goes all out from the kick-off, takes an early lead, does zero fannying about at the back, and uses his skills as a lawyer to add a bit of unexpected flair just when Sunak is getting exhausted from chasing shadows.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

But that's rubbish because that back of a fag packet aspiration tax doesn't work that simplistically in the real world, as pointed out on QT last week. The Greeks did exactly this in 2015 and it cost far more than it raised, it was a diaster and had to be reversed.

It won't simply raise 1.7B and cost 300m by those kids who miss out as parents can't afford to give their kids the best opportunity.

The millionaire parents will still be able to afford to send their kids to Eton and Eton will be just fine, but they'll be loads of parents in middle class working families who want to save every penny to send their kids to a local private school but now wont be able, and there will be loads of smaller local private schools, already close to the financial margins who will go bust, dumping all their kids on the state system and their teachers on the dole...... that has happened wherever it had been trialled, it happened in Greece a few years ago and I've absolutely no doubt it will happen here too.

As also suggested on QT, It would have been far better to tell private schools to increase private bursary places for families who can't afford to pay than killing the hopes of many middle class parents and bankrupting many smaller private schools with a typical Labour class warfare tax that's Ill thought through and in real terms will cost more than it makes.

But that has always been Labour, damaging ideological taxes.

Thank goodness that Sir Keir is not a school child aged today as maybe be wouldn't be getting the private school bursary he benefitted from.

I've always thought the children of those middle class parents who scrimp and save every last penny to send their children to private schools would almost always have benefited more from their parents taking them on a few more nice holidays.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This got me thinking, the PM is short isn’t he, i checked and it seems he’s 5 ft 7inch’s, then i was was surprised to learn the Starmer is only 5ft 8 inch’s, he looks taller on tv

Rishi, the Prime Miniature.

 

[sparkie]

Majority of that size is going to be incredibly unhealthy……

I think the opposite.

With a small majority the loons hold the party to ransom.

With a large majority the loons are sidelined.


Of course if the majority is zero and there is a hung parliament that is a different dynamic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But that's rubbish because that back of a fag packet aspiration tax doesn't work that simplistically in the real world, as pointed out on QT last week. The Greeks did exactly this in 2015 and it cost far more than it raised, it was a diaster and had to be reversed

You can’t compare the chaotic culture of Greek tax with any nation, let alone the UK.

 

[Zeberdi]

I'm hoping Starmer goes all out from the kick-off, takes an early lead, does zero fannying about at the back, and uses his skills as a lawyer to add a bit of unexpected flair just when Sunak is getting exhausted from chasing shadows.

When you look at the performance stats in recent months, it’s a strategy that’s working well for them this season

 

[peterward]

Have you got any examples? (Examples shouldn’t include cases where the tories have left the coffers empty so their hands are tied)

Coffers empty? "Sorry there's no money left" lest we forget!

Here's one, there's many if you remove the red tinted glasses and actually bother to look!

What Is Keir Starmer's New Position On Transgender Self-ID?

Labour's leader wants to avoid a culture war, but might not have much choice.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

 

[peterward]

I've always thought the children of those middle class parents who scrimp and save every last penny to send their children to private schools would almost always have benefited more from their parents taking them on a few more nice holidays.

Well if guess they'll be many that would sacrifice the holidays to give their kids a better education especially if they live in an area with a poor performing state school.

But that parental choice was available and that parental choice for many is now being effectively removed by a class warfare tax.

 

[dazzer6666]

I think the opposite.

With a small majority the loons hold the party to ransom.

With a large majority the loons are sidelined.


Of course if the majority is zero and there is a hung parliament that is a different dynamic.

Nah, don’t agree. Need a credible opposition to provide some challenge. Labour are going to have two terms completely free of challenge as the Tories spend the next few years fighting amongst themselves.

 

[HeaviestTed]

Coffers empty? "Sorry there's no money left" lest we forget!

Here's one, there's many if you remove the red tinted glasses and actually bother to look!

What Is Keir Starmer's New Position On Transgender Self-ID?

Labour's leader wants to avoid a culture war, but might not have much choice.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

i don’t have red tinted glasses, I’ve never voted labour

 

[jcdenton08]

Through to the next round of debates here lads, no excuses.

 

[GJN1]

Is John Brookes on VAR?

 

[Greavsey]

Well if guess they'll be many that would sacrifice the holidays to give their kids a better education especially if they live in an area with a poor performing state school.

But that parental choice was available and that parental choice for many is now being effectively removed by a class warfare tax.

But surely those poor performing state schools are poor performing for several reasons... one main one being lack of investment from central government, that, whether you agree with it or not, should get improved by this tax.

Additionally, your comparison with Greece is completely ridiculous. The tax "culture" there is incomparable to the U.K.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Well if guess they'll be many that would sacrifice the holidays to give their kids a better education especially if they live in an area with a poor performing state school.

But that parental choice was available and that parental choice for many is now being effectively removed by a class warfare tax.

If they make that choice, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't pay tax on the money spent in the same way as if they decided to spend on something else.

 

[Bob!]

Is John Brookes on VAR?

Now, that is something that would be useful.

Real time fact checking

 

[Hugo Rune]

Sunaks best attack should be to quote Starmers own words and policy ideas from a few years ago and what he now says today. He's flip flopped on pretty much everything, and use that to question if anyone can believe a word he says as his track record shows he never sticks to policy ideas or previous positions.

That would be more effective than simply parroting "he has no plan".

It won't change the grand scheme of events and auto cue Kier won't struggle to find multiple attack vectors on a useless PM nobody voted for.

I’m sure the phrase ‘flip-flop’ will used on multiple occasions by Sunak. It is certainly an adjective that is gaining traction with Sir Keir’s detractors.

I guess from his point of view, Labour’s message is change. They want to project the image of the part having changed which will lead to a changed government. Flip-flopping is changing. Corbyn could never do this because his ideology was based on rigid principles. If you were a CEO of a business and you couldn’t change your policies and direction for the best for the company, you’d be fired. I think there is something in the messaging around changing your position to account for changes in the political landscape, be that financial, social or around security (see Labour Nuclear weapons commitments).