Star Wars VII

[Jim Van Winkle]

Always liked this review of the Phantom Menace.

 

[Jim Van Winkle]

 

[Zukey Seagull]

Thanks for that. Anything else you haven't seen that you feel you need to get off your chest?

Well it's a thread about Star Wars and I was just saying that I have never seen them.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well it's a thread about Star Wars and I was just saying that I have never seen them.

that has tickled me it really has.

 

[BrianWade4]

As long as George Lucas is nowhere near the script, we'll be fine

 

[beorhthelm]

The first 3 were all truly awful in thier own ways. The Phantom Menace is dire and easily the worst of the 6. ...

with a young lad who loves pod race and darth maul, i have been forced to watch this film an inhumane number of time in the past month, and i cant agree. overall its not a bad story, a little contrived but arent all hero films? you're spot on about Attack, i hate the "love scenes" and it ruins the pace, but then thats a problem with the whole prequel series. I have always maintained that really there was only enough material for 2 films thats padded out to a triology. (really hope they dont make this mistake again and make 3 properly contained and plotted stories)

Revenge is the worst because its just a huge long unbelieve plot hole to engineer the end. i could understand the massacre of the Tuskens in attack, but the boy from tattooine and father-to-be killing the jedi kiddies... doesn't scan. could he not talk to Obi Wan or any other jedi? end of the day film makes the Jedi look a bit shit that they can tell whats going on right under their nose with either Anakin or Palpatine, so ultimatly harms the whole concept for me.

 

[KZNSeagull]

As long as George Lucas is nowhere near the script, we'll be fine

This absolutely.

 

[KZNSeagull]

This is the trouble with a franchise that has been going for so long. Those of use who saw the originals as children when they first came out are expecting some really involved plot lines and development, which obviously we are not going to get. Episodes 1 - 3 are Ok, not as good as the original 3 but they are alright.
Episode 1 is redeemed by the fight scene between Obi Wan and Darth Maul - some fast sword fighting for a change.
Episode 2 high points are the seismic charges and Yoda. (I will point out that my wife asked after 25 mins of this film whether Anakin was supposed to be gay and then promptly fell asleep).
Episode 3 was redeemed by some of the fighting between Obi Wan and Anakin and Yoda walking in to see Palpatine . The fight scene where Palpatine takes on 4 Jedi is laughable.

I read yesterday that someone was shown plots for Episodes 7 to 12 back in the 80's and that 7, 8 and 9 were by far the best of all 12 (all about Han, Leia and Luke's kids). As long as George Lucas does not write the scripts or do the casting.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Revenge is the worst because its just a huge long unbelieve plot hole to engineer the end. i could understand the massacre of the Tuskens in attack, but the boy from tattooine and father-to-be killing the jedi kiddies... doesn't scan. could he not talk to Obi Wan or any other jedi? end of the day film makes the Jedi look a bit shit that they can tell whats going on right under their nose with either Anakin or Palpatine, so ultimatly harms the whole concept for me.

We will have to agree to differ on Phantom meance although you can argue a case for each of the prequels being the worst.

I'd agree that the massacre of the Tuskens is believable but the reactions to it less so. Portmans charactor is the equivalent of the beardy, weirdo Guardian reading, lentil eating peacenecks that frequent this board. Her reaction that her other half is a mass murderer of defenceless women? Never mind love, better day at the office tomorrow hopefully. You are also bang on about the sith under Yoda's nose who is supposed to be able to see the future. Obviously his people skills do not match his Lightsabar skills - Perhaps the workplace management courses were not up to scratch?

 

[Billy the Fish]

The first 3 were all truly awful in thier own ways. The Phantom Menace is dire and easily the worst of the 6. Jar Jar Binks, a little kid flying a space ship and the whole set up itself 'There are some trade disagreements in the Galaxy regarding high import taxes to Naboo. Chancellor Palpatine is trying to negotiate a discount for bulk import.....' Yawn. Liam Neeson spends the whole time with a 'Why did I sign up for this shit? look on his face and even Ray Parks Darth Maul has no dialogue because he sounds like Danny Dyer - At least that would have added some fun 'Come here Obi Wan and I'll smash your face in you cu...'

Attack of the clones is better but is blighted by the 'love' scenes which are so badly written and acted its untrue. We know Portman and Christenson can act from other films but the acting here is like a school play. Granted, the set pieces at the end are good but its a long time coming and at least they got the sith right with Christopher Lee.

Revenge of the sith starts well (off with his head!) but again goes downhill. The transition to the darkside is totally unbelievable (Oi, Darth, go and kill the kids will you then switch the droids off will ya? ''Ok mate'') and the dialogue is pitiful especially from Anakin 'I hate you' 'In my opinion, the jedi are evil' and that's before we move onto the laughably bad twin birth death scene. The whole playing out of the goalless draw at the end is nothing to get excited about either - we all know whats going to happen. Overall, Give me Ewoks any day of the week.

One thing I will agree on is that I am looking forward to the new ones. They won't have the weight of expectation (everyone thinks they will be shit), JJ has got good form with Star Trek as well as the Toy Story writer and the original charactors are back - something that 1-3 suffered really badly from.

This is why I never take any notice of other people's film reviews.

Sometimes you just have to ignore the plot holes, questionable acting and allow them tell you the story. It's a bit like going to see a hypnotist but not allowing him to do it to you and then saying he's crap afterwards.

They made Episode 1 almost as a kids film which is why it's hard to like it if you're over the age of 12. It's the same with the Harry Potter films, 1-3 are a bit pants but the later one's stack up against any action based sci-fi

 

[jgmcdee]

Someone put far too much thought into this and came up with a viewing order that I like the sound of: 4, 5, 2, 3, 6.

This keeps the revelation at the end of 5 unspoiled, leaving it on the cliffhanger of Han in carbonite, then uses 2 and 3 as a kind of extended flashback to fill in Anakin's back story, before tying everything together in 6. It just about pulls the two independent trilogies into a single story. And it leaves out episode 1 altogether, which is a bonus.

That's the short version of the justification; in the link above the inventor points out several more ways in which his "machete order" improves on either 1-6 or 4-6,1-3 ordering. He's pretty convincing.

This not only works nicely but also ends the series in the right place, so that when episode 7 arrives it follows on from the last film seen by whomever watches it in this order.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

This is why I never take any notice of other people's film reviews.

Sometimes you just have to ignore the plot holes, questionable acting and allow them tell you the story. It's a bit like going to see a hypnotist but not allowing him to do it to you and then saying he's crap afterwards.

They made Episode 1 almost as a kids film which is why it's hard to like it if you're over the age of 12. It's the same with the Harry Potter films, 1-3 are a bit pants but the later one's stack up against any action based sci-fi

I take your point - Everything has plot holes in it if you look hard enough but this is great gaping chasm. Anakin goes from Kevin the Teenager to Child killing mass murderer in about 3 hours.

A good film will hynotise you, these were like bad comedies at times meaning it was impossible to enable my mind to switch off. These three rival the Holiday special which everyone connected with Star wars tries to forget about.

 

[MattBackHome]

Yeah I have to say I am very fond of Revenge, and much of AOTC. Palpatine is just great all the way through.

Also re-watched the first one not that long ago and unbelievable it actually appeared WORSE than when I'd seen it before. Utter gash.

 

[Bold Seagull]

They made Episode 1 almost as a kids film which is why it's hard to like it if you're over the age of 12. It's the same with the Harry Potter films, 1-3 are a bit pants but the later one's stack up against any action based sci-fi

My kids, nearly 4,8,10 don't like Episode 1 either, it's for the kids but all the stuff about trade federations, taxation, well that's just bollocks to the kids.

Out of all 6 films I think their favourite is episode 3. They just call it 'the one where Anakin turns into darth vader'. Anakin's fall to the dark side is the most fascinating thing of the whole saga to them. Over and over again they've watched it (bit worried about the 4 year old watching it but there you go, he's seen it...).

The fact it ends with the bad guys seemingly winning when pretty much every other film they watch always ends with the good probably is also completely intriguing to them.

I'm like you though, I watched the first 3 and let them wash over me. It's only after seeing them about 5 times each myself I've been more critical. Can't say the critics are wrong, but it didn't hit me like that when I first watched them.

 

[Nibble]

There are some elements of the later films that are good but I watched them all again a few months ago. Absolute mess, the lot of them. Only good thing about the first one was Darth Maul and the offed him before the end of the film. The first trilogy revealed all you need to know about the main characters without having to actually make those insipid, watery cash generators.

I remember going to watch the first one at the flicks, you could sense the excitement in the cinema when those words and that music burst onto the screen. 25 minutes later you could sense the disappointment in the audience.

As for the re-CGI'd versions of the original trilogy. Utter gash.

 

[Billy the Fish]

I take your point - Everything has plot holes in it if you look hard enough but this is great gaping chasm. Anakin goes from Kevin the Teenager to Child killing mass murderer in about 3 hours.

A good film will hynotise you, these were like bad comedies at times meaning it was impossible to enable my mind to switch off. These three rival the Holiday special which everyone connected with Star wars tries to forget about.

Although I guess it just shows how subjective all this stuff is. I was just thinking I didn't like the ending to Django Unchained because what the Christoph Waltz character does didn't make sense, it kind of ruined the film for me. I never got that with revenge of the sith, I found it all believable because teenage Anakin is a bit thick!

 

[beorhthelm]

... I found it all believable because teenage Anakin is a bit thick!

well theres a problem in itself, the young Anakin on Tattooine is a bright and perceptive lad. his intelligence level clearly deteriorates, as in Attack he's a surly, disobedient teenager and by Revenge he's turned into some cocky oik who'd rather listen to someone openly admitting to know the dark side than any of his friends/surrogate family.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Although I guess it just shows how subjective all this stuff is. I was just thinking I didn't like the ending to Django Unchained because what the Christoph Waltz character does didn't make sense, it kind of ruined the film for me. I never got that with revenge of the sith, I found it all believable because teenage Anakin is a bit thick!

You are spot on, it doesn't fit with what's gone before re Django but that's one I let wash over me. The dialogue in the white hood scene and right at the start is so good that my brain had long since switched off at that point. I even like Leonardo Di-Caprio in it. Words I never thought I'd type.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I take your point - Everything has plot holes in it if you look hard enough but this is great gaping chasm. Anakin goes from Kevin the Teenager to Child killing mass murderer in about 3 hours.

Not sure on that really, the Jedi council sense the fear in him straight away. Through Ep2. his views of politics, of totalitarianism, and his revenge in the slaughter of all the Sand People in the camp holding his mother were all building toward a troubled mind. Yes, eventually it did appear he went from still being good to murdering kids, but the Dark Side took hold when he finally stopped resisting it, afterall it is a supernatural force.

To be fair, Obi Wan in Episode 4 in saying that Vader killed Anakin likened it to a sudden act rather than a gradual transformation, hence throughout all the series you 'turn' to the dark side, and in ROTJ, the emperor urges Luke to give into his hate, like it would be a trigger for the dark side to take over, there was an expectancy that Luke could be turned there and then. I think it was quite consistent that turning to the dark side could be an instant transformation.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

Not sure on that really, the Jedi council sense the fear in him straight away. Through Ep2. his views of politics, of totalitarianism, and his revenge in the slaughter of all the Sand People in the camp holding his mother were all building toward a troubled mind. Yes, eventually it did appear he went from still being good to murdering kids, but the Dark Side took hold when he finally stopped resisting it, afterall it is a supernatural force.

To be fair, Obi Wan in Episode 4 in saying that Vader killed Anakin likened it to a sudden act rather than a gradual transformation, hence throughout all the series you 'turn' to the dark side, and in ROTJ, the emperor urges Luke to give into his hate, like it would be a trigger for the dark side to take over, there was an expectancy that Luke could be turned there and then. I think it was quite consistent that turning to the dark side could be an instant transformation.

It just all seems a bit ham fisted. Normally peoples first jobs are a gentle transition to see if they are any good. Sending him to the temple was a bit OTT.

Overall, they could have done his charactor better. Off the top of my head, murdering a jedi on the council to create a position for himself, murdering a random bloke for flirting with his missus, getting the blow torches ala Pulp fiction out on Boba fete or something would have taken him further down that path - The transition hasn't run its course for me which is bizarre as the 3 films are essentially about that moment and they all drag on at times (good knows I've been subjected to them enough)

At the end of the day someone nailed it earlier. Keep Lucas away from the script or acting for 7-9. The fact Empire was the best of the bunch which he didn't direct says it all.