[Albion] ST revoked for touting Arsenal game? Now with PB response (post #306)

[BNthree]

When people pass them onto a mate there is very often a reciprocal financial transaction involved. I know of one such large group where this happens for every game with £25 being the acknowledged going rate.

(Note to Albion supporter services: I have clearly NEVER done this myself as it's against the law, the rules and I'd like to still go to games.)

Indeed but I never mentioned money. Club seems go after those advertising tickets as obviously there is no way to regulate informal sharing like that. Not saying it is a good thing just trying to point out that informal sharing isn't at threat. Personally some sort of sanctioned club exchange (where buyer has to supply their fan number & have a purchase history) would be ideal.

 

[Weststander]

The club absolutely does NOT have to act when those identified as long-standing fans pass on a ticket to another Albion fan for face value or less. This scenario is a world away from opportunists intentionally and knowing looking to profit.

To ban a long-standing fan for a period of time based on a single known transgression is wholly excessive and displays absolutely no empathy towards football supporters. You do have to wonder about the mindset of those who think this course of action is appropriate. Career ticketing professionals who have never been and are not football supporters themselves? I have no idea, but this isn't telling someone they can't go to Tesco any more, when there is Sainsbury and Asda just down the road. This is a relationship with a football club - special, intimate and can't be changed on a whim.

By all means slap the person on the wrist, tell them they've had their one chance, but ban them from Albion games? **** me.

And to be clear: throw the book at touts and opportunists absolutely.

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]. Usually you (IMO, rightly) support the rationale behind club policies on various matters. I can't recall you so being fervent the other way! A genuine question - do you personally know of injustices where s/t holders have had their card blocked for a single trangression along the lines of those you mention? If so, that does seem a sledgehammer to crack a nut, where the club should be concentrating on profiteers and repeat offenders.

 

[dazzer6666]

Indeed but I never mentioned money. Club seems go after those advertising tickets as obviously there is no way to regulate informal sharing like that. Not saying it is a good thing just trying to point out that informal sharing isn't at threat. Personally some sort of sanctioned club exchange (where buyer has to supply their fan number & have a purchase history) would be ideal.

..........or just a simple, effective ticket exchange, where the STH gets cash back, or at least a like-for-like reduction in the cost of the ST for the following season instead of shop vouchers. They won’t sanction another informal exchange whilst they have their own (very profitable) one working.

If I put my seat on the current exchange, the club already have my £25ish I’ve paid, send me a £25 voucher that in reality costs them probably £10, then they resell my seat for up to £50, so they’re making up to £65 a seat sold via the exchange.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The club absolutely does NOT have to act when those identified as long-standing fans pass on a ticket to another Albion fan for face value or less. This scenario is a world away from opportunists intentionally and knowing looking to profit.

To ban a long-standing fan for a period of time based on a single known transgression is wholly excessive and displays absolutely no empathy towards football supporters. You do have to wonder about the mindset of those who think this course of action is appropriate. Career ticketing professionals who have never been and are not football supporters themselves? I have no idea, but this isn't telling someone they can't go to Tesco any more, when there is Sainsbury and Asda just down the road. This is a relationship with a football club - special, intimate and can't be changed on a whim.

By all means slap the person on the wrist, tell them they've had their one chance, but ban them from Albion games? **** me.

And to be clear: throw the book at touts and opportunists absolutely.

You have misunderstood my post. The club has to act when tickets are offered on Facebook for £70 each.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

..........or just a simple, effective ticket exchange, where the STH gets cash back, or at least a like-for-like reduction in the cost of the ST for the following season instead of shop vouchers. They won’t sanction another informal exchange whilst they have their own (very profitable) one working.

If I put my seat on the current exchange, the club already have my £25ish I’ve paid, send me a £25 voucher that in reality costs them probably £10, then they resell my seat for up to £50, so they’re making up to £65 a seat sold via the exchange.

Yup, this. Much of the problems the club are experiencing with ticket, um, transfers are of their own making due to not having a fit-for-purpose ticket exchange. Surely they could have someone take a look at how other clubs operate their ticket exchanges, then simply adopt the 'best of breed', making tweaks where necessary.

 

[sully]

Because there have been tickets advertised for £70 each on Facebook. The club has to act whether it wants to or not.

I agree that those seeking to profit should be stopped. That’s not the point I’ve been making. It’s that others NOT seeking to make a profit but just allow others to go are also being punished.

 

[sully]

Are you referring to the anecdotal evidence that you posted about someone who advertised on facebook?

If you want the Amex to turn into the Emirates then let's allow sth to sell their seats to anyone. The club have turned a blind eye to the illegal act of passing the ticket on to friends and family (they are relying on the judgement of the STH who would know if there are problems caused by the person using the ticket they could lose their season ticket) but they are quite right to stop people selling to all on sundry whether to recoup your outlay or, as is more likely to happen if it is allowed to continue, for a profit.

Touting, whether through dubious characters loitering around outside venues or the legalized resale sites should all be illegal.

It was advertised on a Brighton fans group and purchased by other Brighton fans.

 

[Wozza]

It was advertised on a Brighton fans group and purchased by other Brighton fans.

A public group, not closed though, presumably?

Not many people’s definition of ‘touting’ though, I know.

No bad intentions from anyone.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree that those seeking to profit should be stopped. That’s not the point I’ve been making. It’s that others NOT seeking to make a profit but just allow others to go are also being punished.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your post, but it still remains that money exchanged hands. Tickets passed on for free shouldn't be affected.

 

[Charlies Shinpad]

Yup ,apparently i didn't exist as a fan pre Amex days so without a ST it's pretty much the only way to go .

Everton tickets went right down to Bronze Memberships

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I think the big worry is that this is the thin end of the wedge.


What further crackdowns are coming ? How much bigger is the Sledgehammer going to get ?

 

[seagulls4ever]

I don't agree with the club's actions here, but at the very least the club should have contacted Bozza and told him their intentions with regards to the ticket exchange section on NSC, instead of waiting for people to post their tickets on sale there (to fellow Brighton fans) and then banning them. Had Bozza been informed, he could have removed the exchange sooner and put a warning out. Very sneaky from the club.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Yup ,apparently i didn't exist as a fan pre Amex days so without a ST it's pretty much the only way to go .

I'm an exile fan living in Liverpool and I've been going to Brighton away matches every season for 20+ years and I'm going on Saturday with or without the club's permission. If I could get a ticket via an NSC ticket exchange I would happily give my fan number and do it all above board but can't so they'll be Scouse Seagulls in the home end. No proper ticket exchange means the club is part of the problem in reverse.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I'm an exile fan living in Liverpool and I've been going to Brighton away matches every season for 20+ years and I'm going on Saturday with or without the club's permission. If I could get a ticket via an NSC ticket exchange I would happily give my fan number and do it all above board but can't so they'll be Scouse Seagulls in the home end. No proper ticket exchange means the club is part of the problem in reverse.

I’m not picking your post deliberately; it’s just one of many promoting the idea of a club-sanctioned NSC ticket exchange.

If such a thing existed, I assume that the people who want it would have no problem with the inevitable LP harvesting that would occur? People who could get tickets but had no intention of going to the game would buy them and then transfer the ticket to another fan on here, but keep the LP. Fans were, correctly imo, in uproar over the Muff shambles - this solution would massively exacerbate it.

 

[Bozza]

[MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION]. Usually you (IMO, rightly) support the rationale behind club policies on various matters. I can't recall you so being fervent the other way! A genuine question - do you personally know of injustices where s/t holders have had their card blocked for a single trangression along the lines of those you mention? If so, that does seem a sledgehammer to crack a nut, where the club should be concentrating on profiteers and repeat offenders.

I'm fully supportive of the club doing what they pragmatically can to stop people from trying to profit from Albion tickets, particularly those who look to do so from the discount inherent in a season ticket purchase.

I also fully appreciate that a line has to be drawn between what is OK and what is deemed not OK, and that those who find themselves only just on the "not OK" side of the line may feel harshly treated.

However, I believe the punishments being handed out are overly punitive when the club's own records reveal a fan is a genuine long-standing fan who has used a community of other Albion fans to pass on a single ticket that would go otherwise unused, and to do so at a non-inflated price.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I’m not picking your post deliberately; it’s just one of many promoting the idea of a club-sanctioned NSC ticket exchange.

If such a thing existed, I assume that the people who want it would have no problem with the inevitable LP harvesting that would occur? People who could get tickets but had no intention of going to the game would buy them and then transfer the ticket to another fan on here, but keep the LP. Fans were, correctly imo, in uproar over the Muff shambles - this solution would massively exacerbate it.

Yeah, I guess people like me have stabbed ourselves in the foot here. I was very angry about the Muff shambles because it meant that non-sth holders were denied the chance to go to an away game, and now I'm angry about the withdrawal of the NSC ticket exchange because its denying non-sth holders a chance of getting tickets to away games (I know a few of late have gone down to bronze members). If the first has affected the second, bugger.

A club exchange, whereby fan numbers and hence loyalty points are switched, would be better, and then the club could also offer the resales to people with the right number of loyalty points - doesn't help me but I can't deny that makes sense.

Away tickets being thrown away because they can't be moved on is just stupid.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

I’m not picking your post deliberately; it’s just one of many promoting the idea of a club-sanctioned NSC ticket exchange.

If such a thing existed, I assume that the people who want it would have no problem with the inevitable LP harvesting that would occur? People who could get tickets but had no intention of going to the game would buy them and then transfer the ticket to another fan on here, but keep the LP. Fans were, correctly imo, in uproar over the Muff shambles - this solution would massively exacerbate it.

But done correctly with fan numbers, the fan going to the game would get the loyalty points not the person who originally bought the ticket. If someone is genuinely sick and can't go they either keep the ticket and the loyalty points or sell the ticket via NSC ticket exchange and the loyalty points go to new fan number. The problem with the Bournemouth match was they offered too many LP for a cheap ticket.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Am I missing something, or is the type of scenario we're talking about (passing it on to a mate for a match we can't attend, etc) actually already covered by the club?

https://www.seagullstickets.com/documents/html/tandc.html

3.2 You may only sell or transfer the Season Ticket:
3.2.1 to a Guest with the express written consent of the Club given at the Club's absolute discretion, provided that such sale or transfer is in respect of an individual Match and in consideration of no payment or benefit in excess of the face value of a ticket to that Match and provided further that such transfer does not take place during the course of any business or for the purpose of facilitating any third party's business; and/or


Isn't this effectively saying 'email (which is 'written' in legal terms nowadays) us to tell us you want to let someone else go to a match as a one-off with my ticket, and we can give consent'.

Has anyone actually tried doing this? Did it work? Would the club be overwhelmed if everyone did this?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

Yeah I tried with two match-day tickets. They said "Only in exceptional circumstances would the club consider such a decision. Exceptional circumstances would be for example death, serious illness resulting in hospitalisation and in both cases proof would be required."

They did offer to move the tickets to the Swansea or West Ham games though, which was decent enough even though we couldn't make those dates

 

[Goldstone1976]

But done correctly with fan numbers, the fan going to the game would get the loyalty points not the person who originally bought the ticket. If someone is genuinely sick and can't go they either keep the ticket and the loyalty points or sell the ticket via NSC ticket exchange and the loyalty points go to new fan number. The problem with the Bournemouth match was they offered too many LP for a cheap ticket.

So NSC picks up the admin burden of tracking the seller’s fan number and the buyer’s fan number and sends a file to the club? Really?

Also, what about ensuring that the buying fan has a high enough number of LP? If this doesn’t happen then a fan who has, say, 225 LP loses out to one who has only 75, simply because they log on to NSC 1 hour later?

An officially-sanctioned NSC exchange would, imo, become little more than an outsourced club supporter services/ticketing operation, with all the grief and admin burden that brings.

I just don’t think it’s workable. Now, a totally unofficial one - that’s a different thing, but the club have made it clear they’re not comfortable with that.

 

[Renegade1]

Regards tickets.There always seems to be a bunch of single seats spread around making them less sellable
unless fans are happy to go alone.