[Travel] Southern scraps off-peak Brighton to Victoria trains

[rippleman]

And soon after this is complete comes another 7 years of disruption from 2023 to 2030 because of the Croydon Area Remodelling Scheme.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/runni...n-main-line/unblocking-the-croydon-bottleneck

It will take 7 years to "remodel" Croydon?

Why not just get the black hoodie thugs to burn it down again? At least then you have ground zero to build on.

 

[beorhthelm]

Conditions 12.1 and 13.1 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel make clear that any restrictions on the trains or train companies you can take must be clearly indicated on the ticket.

There is only one company which trades as Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express and Great Northern. Its legal name is Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. Thus, it would be reasonable to assume that, if 'Thameslink only' is intended to refer to a specific train company then it refers to Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd., of which it is an abbreviation (given that there is only space for 16 characters in the route restriction field on a ticket).

So yes, you are legally entitled to take a Gatwick Express train with a 'Thameslink only' ticket, provided the route-wise validity of the ticket lets you (e.g. you could on a London Terminals to Gatwick Airport one, but not on a London Bridge to Gatwick Airport one as no Gatwick Express trains depart from London Bridge). Either 'Thameslink only' is referring to Govia Thameslink Railway Ltd. - in which case it is referring to the only operator of trains to Gatwick Airport which you can take from London, or it isn't referring to a Train Company (as defined in the NRCoT) at all.

The unknowledgeable and poorly/wrongly trained staff at the ticket barriers will likely not agree with you, but they would be wrong in disagreeing with you. If they caused you to be delayed by incorrectly preventing you from exercising your contractual rights then you would be entitled to the appropriate Delay Repay compensation.

hang on a moment, you assume something very significant there. i cant fault the logic thereafter, but is this actual fact or based on this assumption that may be incorrect? the name Thameslink also refers to a specified service, is it the service or company that determines any restriction?

 

[halbpro]

As much as l admire Caroline Lucas, and your standing in the community, I'm not at all sure that your solitary email will result in Govia Thameslink caving in to your demands.

It's not going to change anything at all, but what if lots of people send a "solitary email"? It's still unlikely to change anything significant, but we could maybe get Gatwick Express tickets declassified as they were during the significant disruption a while back.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's not going to change anything at all, but what if lots of people send a "solitary email"? It's still unlikely to change anything significant, but we could maybe get Gatwick Express tickets declassified as they were during the significant disruption a while back.

its part of the point of an MP for us to have someone to contact on issues. back to topic, if everyone emails the local MPs, focus on the issue of ticket fares rather than the work and reduced service, something positive might come of it.

 

[Skuller]

As a constituent of Maria Caulfield (Lewes constituency) I have expressed concern of train services in recent years. She's just written to me (and others I assume) to claim the triumph of getting eight-carriage off-peak trains (rather than mostly four-carriage which are crammed solid before they even get to Lewes) from Coastway East going to Victoria without joining-up with a Coastway West train at Haywards Heath from May. I think she's been hoodwinked. The only reason they've gone to eight carriages (not joining at HH) is because of the Gatwick upgrade forcing removal of Brighton Victoria off-peak trains. That frees-up carriages which can be added to the Coastway to Victoria trains and frees-up track capacity which can be used to not join trains at HH. They'll need extra capacity to cram-in the Brighton to Victoria passengers changing from Thameslink at HH. I've asked her to ask Govia what will happen when Gatwick upgrade is complete (will they keep 8 carriage non-joining Coastway to Victoria trains?), and how many additional carriages they've sourced to allow for 8 carriage Coastway to Victoria trains. If it's "none" then she's been duped.

 

[Gwylan]

If it's "none" then she's been duped.

TBH, Maria Caulfield could probably be duped by a lamp post

 

[Uter]

As a constituent of Maria Caulfield (Lewes constituency) I have expressed concern of train services in recent years. She's just written to me (and others I assume) to claim the triumph of getting eight-carriage off-peak trains (rather than mostly four-carriage which are crammed solid before they even get to Lewes) from Coastway East going to Victoria without joining-up with a Coastway West train at Haywards Heath from May. I think she's been hoodwinked. The only reason they've gone to eight carriages (not joining at HH) is because of the Gatwick upgrade forcing removal of Brighton Victoria off-peak trains. That frees-up carriages which can be added to the Coastway to Victoria trains and frees-up track capacity which can be used to not join trains at HH. They'll need extra capacity to cram-in the Brighton to Victoria passengers changing from Thameslink at HH. I've asked her to ask Govia what will happen when Gatwick upgrade is complete (will they keep 8 carriage non-joining Coastway to Victoria trains?), and how many additional carriages they've sourced to allow for 8 carriage Coastway to Victoria trains. If it's "none" then she's been duped.

If they want to return to 8 TPH from Brighton I think they will have to return to splitting/joining at HH for Coastway services because of lack of train paths through East Croydon. Which means at least one of the Coastway trains will have to be 4 carriages, if not both.

On a similar theme, I never saw any official announcement about ticket pricing for the Gatwick Express services that are extended to Brighton during the works. Everything I saw just related to service patterns. Everyone jumped to the conclusion that they'd have to pay a premium for the GE services from Brighton, but I am sceptical this was ever the plan. It would have created overcrowding on other services. I think the politicians leaping to credit themselves with getting agreement for Southern off peak ticket acceptance on GE services have merely obtained confirmation what the ticket policy was always going to be, rather than force a U-turn.

 

[ken tiler]

hang on a moment, you assume something very significant there. i cant fault the logic thereafter, but is this actual fact or based on this assumption that may be incorrect? the name Thameslink also refers to a specified service, is it the service or company that determines any restriction?

Ernest is right. As well as the conditions of carriage that Ernest aludes to there is also - and I I quote from a thread on the Rail Uk forum on ticketing etc.
.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...hameslink-only-southern-only-on-gatex.135931/

"In The Ticketing Settlement Agreement (TSA) which allows an operator to set operator specific fares; there is no provision within the TSA to allow an operator to set brand specific fares. The definition of operator is very clear; Govia Thameslink Railway is an operator.

Govia Thameslink Railway are obliged to comply with the TSA, whether they - or the DfT - want to or not.

We all know that anyone who asserts their rights robustly is refunded; it was the same under Southern until the GTR merge (Southern admit they were wrong to sell GX "supplement".) and so far I know of many people who use Thameslink Only fares on Gatwick Express, only a very tiny proportion are charged, and so far everyone who has sought a refund has got one. If anyone was not refunded, I am sure that they could take their case to the rail regulator (ORR) and report a breach of the TSA, which would then be taken seriously, I am sure."

Of course, I and many other people go along with this to avoid a hassle even though the pompous declarations on the Gatwick Express service etc about having the correct ticket are incorrect and probably illegal.

 

[Springal]

Someone was on my train to Victoria with a TL only ticket, OBS didn’t seem that bothered but did say if revenue officers were at Victoria they might have problems