Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Postman Pat]

Jesus f******* wept - if you haven't got the message that it's not the money but the terms of the offer that are the issue by now then there's no hope. The monetary offer is great but we will not agree to a pay rise in return for DOO. If they come back with a pay rise of 75% I will still not accept it.
And if you think that drivers want to lose several days pay so that they can have an extra day off then you are even more deluded than I thought.

I'm completely confused by all of this now. This action is being called separately from the DOO issue, as per your Union. So you want a payrise, but you won't accept whatever is offered anyway? Why is this separate action needed from the overtime ban already in place?

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

I'm completely confused by all of this now. This action is being called separately from the DOO issue, as per your Union. So you want a payrise, but you won't accept whatever is offered anyway? Why is this separate action needed from the overtime ban already in place?

It does appear so.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/southernfail/

 

[Lower West Stander]

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/southernfail/

So 488 people have pledged 30 quid each.

Righto.....

 

[Thunder Bolt]

So 488 people have pledged 30 quid each.

Righto.....

They are fighting it for the commuters. Nobody is asking you to donate or pledge, but there is some explanation there.

 

[Deadly Danson]

ASLEF don't help themselves when they use wording like 'pay dispute' in their OWN literature. I 100% believe [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION] when he says it's not about pay, but his and his colleagues cause is not helped when their own union puts that out.

Actually agree to an extent - it is a bit arse about face but separate talks to the DOO dispute were started to try and agree an outstanding pay deal but no offer was put forward by the company that didn't include an agreement to run DOO and more importantly didn't guarantee a second safety critical person on board plus other changes to our terms and conditions were included so, in effect, no satisfactory offer was put forward regardless of the amount offered. Hope that makes some sort of sense. In my opinion Aslef should never have started pay talks anyway because it now looks as though all we want is more money to accept the DOO changes and it plays into the company's hands a bit so that they can put out statements intimating we are all greedy and just want more money.

 

[beorhthelm]

2 seconds to check 24 doors at each station, with outdated cameras. Some platforms are curved, and the rolling stock too old.
Anyone dies through an accident and the driver goes to jail. Yep, some compromise.

a guard cant necessarily see any better on a curved station, indeed the cameras on each carriage (so only have to see the length of that car) may be an improvement.

 

[Postman Pat]

Actually agree to an extent - it is a bit arse about face but separate talks to the DOO dispute were started to try and agree an outstanding pay deal but no offer was put forward by the company that didn't include an agreement to run DOO and more importantly didn't guarantee a second safety critical person on board plus other changes to our terms and conditions were included so, in effect, no satisfactory offer was put forward regardless of the amount offered. Hope that makes some sort of sense. In my opinion Aslef should never have started pay talks anyway because it now looks as though all we want is more money to accept the DOO changes and it plays into the company's hands a bit so that they can put out statements intimating we are all greedy and just want more money.

They should say that rather than pay dispute. "ASLEF will not accept any pay offer that has DOO conditions attached in the current environment". As you say it just makes them look greedy, and will be reported in the media as such.

I have some sympathy with drivers, but strikes in this manner 3 days in 4 make it effectively a week long strike and lose any goodwill from commuters.

 

[Sussexscots]

I say a small prayer of thanks every day that I no longer have to commute. Anyone that does has my sympathy. And if I did, I doubt I would any longer give a feck about the rights and wrongs, I'd just want it sorted.

It's more than exposure enough to their 'service' uusing SASTA for Albion games.

 

[Arthur]

2 seconds to check 24 doors at each station, with outdated cameras. Some platforms are curved, and the rolling stock too old.
Anyone dies through an accident and the driver goes to jail. Yep, some compromise.

When have you ever known a train to stop at a station for 2 seconds?
How does the guard manage to do it?
What does the guard do that they driver couldn't with regard to curved platforms? Surely its actually safer for someone to be looking at a monitor in this instance?
Why shouldn't a driver not go to jail if they were guilty of killing someone due to them not doing their job properly? Are you suggesting the driver of the Croydon Tram shouldn't go to prison if found guilty?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

When have you ever known a train to stop at a station for 2 seconds?
How does the guard manage to do it?
What does the guard do that they driver couldn't with regard to curved platforms? Surely its actually safer for someone to be looking at a monitor in this instance?
Why shouldn't a driver not go to jail if they were guilty of killing someone due to them not doing their job properly? Are you suggesting the driver of the Croydon Tram shouldn't go to prison if found guilty?

The guard steps out onto the platform so that he can see the entire length of the train. You're not really interested in the rest of the answers.

 

[Arthur]

The guard steps out onto the platform so that he can see the entire length of the train.

Why can't a driver do that?

You're not really interested in the rest of the answers.

Or you aren't interested in answering them.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Why can't a driver do that?



Or you aren't interested in answering them.

No, because you have a closed mind.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

but strikes in this manner 3 days in 4 make it effectively a week long strike and lose any goodwill from commuters.

It actually shows the drivers don't give a toss about commuters. An entirely cynical move to make it a four day strike while they only lose three days pay.

 

[essbee1]

It's selfish so and so's like you that are sending this country to the wall,it's not all about you,forward thinking companies like southern are trying to drag the rail industry forward,it's called progress,deal with it...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Utter, utter, utter bullshit.

 

[Deadly Danson]

When have you ever known a train to stop at a station for 2 seconds?
How does the guard manage to do it?
What does the guard do that they driver couldn't with regard to curved platforms? Surely its actually safer for someone to be looking at a monitor in this instance?
Why shouldn't a driver not go to jail if they were guilty of killing someone due to them not doing their job properly? Are you suggesting the driver of the Croydon Tram shouldn't go to prison if found guilty?

Surely having 2 seats of eyes and one pair of ears is preferable to just one set of ears viewing a dodgy quality monitor? Guard can check the platform (if it's curved they stand in the middle where they can see the whole train obviously), listen for any problems, spot any latecomers or anyone having difficulties whilst the driver acts as a second pair of eyes and watches the monitors. Why, on God's earth would anyone want to remove one layer of safety because that's all this dispute is really about.
However, you have talked of compromise - I think by common consent, given where we are, the compromise of making the OBS safety critically trained, guaranteed (maybe with the exception of severe disruption), lay down a proper procedure so that when the train stops the OBS signals to the driver that platform duties have been completed (i.e, no one needs assistance and all is safe as far as he/she can see - this already has to be done but there is no proper procedure for it) and the driver closes the doors using the monitors is a very reasonable compromise on our part. But we know that GTR and the Dft won't guarantee that second person and we all know why. Time for them to compromise I think.

 

[essbee1]

I am sincerely sorry you had to do some work. I hope through this latest industrial action you and your comrades will never have to face the prospect of leaving your seat again. And with the new intake of OBS you shouldn't have too much to do. Stay strong.

Jesus wept.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Utter, utter, utter bullshit.

To be fair - I think it was sarcasm on Baker lites's part and you are both on the same page.

 

[Arthur]

Surely having 2 seats of eyes and one pair of ears is preferable to just one set of ears viewing a dodgy quality monitor? Guard can check the platform (if it's curved they stand in the middle where they can see the whole train obviously), listen for any problems, spot any latecomers or anyone having difficulties whilst the driver acts as a second pair of eyes and watches the monitors. Why, on God's earth would anyone want to remove one layer of safety because that's all this dispute is really about.

Of course it is BUT you could use the same argument to say it's better to have a lolly pop lady at on every crossing on the road.

However, you have talked of compromise - I think by common consent, given where we are, the compromise of making the OBS safety critically trained, guaranteed (maybe with the exception of severe disruption), lay down a proper procedure so that when the train stops the OBS signals to the driver that platform duties have been completed (i.e, no one needs assistance and all is safe as far as he/she can see - this already has to be done but there is no proper procedure for it) and the driver closes the doors using the monitors is a very reasonable compromise on our part. But we know that GTR and the Dft won't guarantee that second person and we all know why. Time for them to compromise I think.

I don't disagree with that at all. How much training does it take for someone to look down the platform see that its clear and then tell the driver they can shut the door or even shut it themselves? Surely you must have something in your cab telling you all the doors are shut properly and you are free to go?

I'd much rather there were two people on the train of course I would. However I'm sensible enough to realise the world revolves around money and I'd rather a train ran without a second person than not at all.

 

[essbee1]

To be fair - I think it was sarcasm on Baker lites's part and you are both on the same page.

Sorry Baker - I didn't follow the thread properly - usually get the irony stuff. Too much sun here in E Europe.