Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Arthur]

I'm not painting them as heroes - I'm saying they are not the major reason behind our utterly crap service. They are simply exercising their right to strike, which is inconvenient and annoying to us, but not really the reason for the omnishambles we witness. Afterall, where is the evidence that the southern branch of the GMT are any more militant than anywhere else in the country where they HAVEN'T been on strike 12 days in 2016?

If you can't criticise the union because they are simply looking out for their members then you can't really do the same to Southern as after all they are simply looking out for their shareholders.

The RMT (I assume you weren't talking about a militant time zone!?!) are militant everywhere. We're not any more "lucky" than anywhere else in the country. https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#tbm=nws&q=RMT+ballot

 

[Arthur]

Has anyone seen the new on-line form you have to register with to get delay repay ?
The old form you just put in a time you were delayed , now you have to fill out a free text to explain what you did , or they just calculate the next train and what time you could have got home.
Bang goes sitting in a pub for a couple of pints then getting some train home with delay repay paying for it.
Now got to stand on the platform with the great unwashed fighting to get on the next available service......bugger

It looks nicer than the old one and the fact there are 4 or 5 payment options now including bank transfer and paypal is an improvement. But I do agree it's more clunky now and annoying as I had an applet in my browser which completed the form for me and I just changed the relevant details per claim. Said applet no longer works which is annoying so it does take longer now but as [MENTION=365]Napper[/MENTION] says it's still not difficult.

 

[Simster]

If you can't criticise the union because they are simply looking out for their members then you can't really do the same to Southern as after all they are simply looking out for their shareholders.

The RMT (I assume you weren't talking about a militant time zone!?!) are militant everywhere. We're not any more "lucky" than anywhere else in the country. https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#tbm=nws&q=RMT+ballot

Apologies - RMT indeed

The difference between criticising the union for withhlding labour and criticising the Southern for not providing a service is that when the union do it, they don't get paid. Southern, on the other hand, can treat their customers with contempt (and do), safe in the knowledge that the money will roll in regardless. I don't believe the RMT when it says it apologies to customers (I'll agree with you that they barely give a toss about us, so I wish they'd stop pretending to do so) BUT at least if they withhold labour on a point of principle, it comes at a personal cost.

 

[Arthur]

Apologies - RMT indeed

The difference between criticising the union for withhlding labour and criticising the Southern for not providing a service is that when the union do it, they don't get paid. Southern, on the other hand, can treat their customers with contempt (and do), safe in the knowledge that the money will roll in regardless. I don't believe the RMT when it says it apologies to customers (I'll agree with you that they barely give a toss about us, so I wish they'd stop pretending to do so) BUT at least if they withhold labour on a point of principle, it comes at a personal cost.

Yeah I get that and ironically probably increases Southern's profits as they don't have the expense of running as many services.

What I don't understand is if the union has told its members to accept Southern's terms albeit through gritted teeth then why are they still striking?

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Having a bad day, hun?

As I say my own personal perception was that the service wasn't anywhere near as bad pre-dispute as it has been during dispute. Maybe I'm wrong. That can happen with perceptions.

Beyond that, as I said, as a layman, it seems as though are many factors outside the direct control of SASTA, particularly on the Brighton <--> London mainline, that can completely ripple things. Again, maybe that's wrong too.

Hugz x

Speaking as a REGULAR commuter on that line. Your perceptions are correct big man x.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I know very little about this dispute anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
I have read in the media that if you require disabled access to a train you will need to give 24hrs notice.
If this is true then surely this is discrimination towards people with disabilities and against the law.
This would not be acceptable in any other circumstance. For example you wouldn't have to inform a shop that you plan to visit 24hrs in advance that you wish to visit and therefore could they arrange disabled access for a particular time.
Also what would happen if Southern cancel the train that you had pre arranged 24 hrs earlier? Would you automatically have disabled access to the next train?

I'm surprised that more has not been made of this issue as it's clearly unacceptable.

Agree wholeheartedly. However I believe this isn't just Southern but the national network as a whole.

 

[pearl]

Yeah I get that and ironically probably increases Southern's profits as they don't have the expense of running as many services.

What I don't understand is if the union has told its members to accept Southern's terms albeit through gritted teeth then why are they still striking?

yeah, I must admit that makes no sense

 

[Deadly Danson]

yeah, I must admit that makes no sense

Just so that, worst case, they still have a job in 12 weeks. From a union point of view they obviously have to protect their employee jobs. They are still protesting over the change of roles.

 

[Arthur]

Just so that, worst case, they still have a job in 12 weeks. From a union point of view they obviously have to protect their employee jobs. They are still protesting over the change of roles.

But then aren't said employees in breach of their contract for not turning up to work?

 

[Deadly Danson]

But then aren't said employees in breach of their contract for not turning up to work?

Not when they are part of a legal strike.

 

[Arthur]

Not when they are part of a legal strike.

Fair enough. Couple of questions then.....

How could Southern threaten them with the sack in first place?
Secondly so as long as the strike is legal then they can strike for as long as they like moving forward?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It will start to cost Sothern even more once this gets rolled out. Love the fact that they are targetting Southern first.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ers-claim-compensation-15-minute-delays-repay

Joke service.

So does this suggest the Government aren't pulling Southern's strings ?

 

[Deadly Danson]

Fair enough. Couple of questions then.....

How could Southern threaten them with the sack in first place?
Secondly so as long as the strike is legal then they can strike for as long as they like moving forward?

1. Basically it was sign up to one of the new roles or here's your 12 week notice.
2. Yes. I'm not 100% on the technicalities of how long their ballot remains legal and whether they will need another ballot to continue with more strikes further down the line.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

GTR deliberately preventing trains stopping at specific stations to force though Driver Only Operation
RAIL UNION RMT has been alerted to the fact that GTR Southern is deliberately preventing trains from stopping at specific stations to force though Driver Only Operation.

The union says that the revelations expose the fact that the company is hell-bent on DOO, despite their public bluster, and that they are determined to have 1600 trains a day running without a Guard by January regardless of the impact on access and safety.

The union was contacted by disappointed passengers to say that those expecting to travel to Redhill, on last Saturday night’s (8 October) Victoria to Portsmouth and Southampton services, were told to leave the train as it would not be stopping at their destination. The reason given was that no platform staff were available to dispatch the train.

Passengers were left bemused and angry as there were Guards travelling on those trains who dispatch the trains at other stations on the same route.

The train dispatch at Redhill would have previously been performed by the Guard but they had been recently stripped of these duties by GTR.

Mick Cash, RMT General Secretary, said:

“GTR has yet again shown blatant disregard for the travelling public in its drive to get rid of the Guard and continues to create misery for anyone unfortunate enough to have to use its trains.

“What is even more shocking in this instance is that there physically were Guards working on those trains but they had been ordered by GTR bosses to not get involved in any train dispatch duties in the Redhill area.

“This whole incident exposes why Southern have refused every reasonable attempt by the union to resolve this dispute. They are not interested and despite all their bluster it shows that their core objective is wholesale Driver Only Operation with 1600 trains a day running without a Guard by the new year."

Not sure I understand the thinking behind this. What's the link between failing to stop at these stations and forcing through DOO trains ?

 

[Deadly Danson]

So does this suggest the Government aren't pulling Southern's strings ?

Don't think so. As per today's Independent:

The Government is accused today of hiding evidence to thwart calls for the operator of crisis-hit Southern Rail to be stripped of its contract.

A committee of MPs condemns the Department for Transport (DfT) for refusing to make available the statistics it will use to assess whether the number of cancelled trains should trigger a termination.

Officials said the assessment would not be complete until long after the current industrial action is over, despite strikes being planned into December – a delay attacked by MPs as “unacceptable”.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Not sure I understand the thinking behind this. What's the link between failing to stop at these stations and forcing through DOO trains ?

Certain safety mechanisms have to be in place before a train can run DOO - platform dispatchers, and/or mirrors, platform monitors and/or in train CCTV that doesn't look like an old fuzzy black and white movie with the contrast turned down which is what most trains we drive have. GTR, in their desperate rush to force through DOO extensions, forgot that Redhill doesn't have mirrors/monitors etc so would need a dispatcher and therefore the train couldn't stop there whilst DOO.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Don't think so. As per today's Independent:

The Government is accused today of hiding evidence to thwart calls for the operator of crisis-hit Southern Rail to be stripped of its contract.

A committee of MPs condemns the Department for Transport (DfT) for refusing to make available the statistics it will use to assess whether the number of cancelled trains should trigger a termination.

Officials said the assessment would not be complete until long after the current industrial action is over, despite strikes being planned into December – a delay attacked by MPs as “unacceptable”.

Fair enough (and personally I do think the Government are very much involved as they wish to preserve their ever more tarnished franchise system). It's just a little difficult sometimes to see who is playing politics with these types of committees. It may be perfectly reasonable to delay publication...or it may not.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Certain safety mechanisms have to be in place before a train can run DOO - platform dispatchers, and/or mirrors, platform monitors and/or in train CCTV that doesn't look like an old fuzzy black and white movie with the contrast turned down which is what most trains we drive have. GTR, in their desperate rush to force through DOO extensions, forgot that Redhill doesn't have mirrors/monitors etc so would need a dispatcher and therefore the train couldn't stop there whilst DOO.

Understood, thank you. Any jobs going in management ? They sound rubbish at it but I'm guessing the pay is decent ?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Don't think so. As per today's Independent:

The Government is accused today of hiding evidence to thwart calls for the operator of crisis-hit Southern Rail to be stripped of its contract.

A committee of MPs condemns the Department for Transport (DfT) for refusing to make available the statistics it will use to assess whether the number of cancelled trains should trigger a termination.

Officials said the assessment would not be complete until long after the current industrial action is over, despite strikes being planned into December – a delay attacked by MPs as “unacceptable”.

Just TREMENDOUS to see DfT finally on the back foot They won't have the balls or the logic to fight their frankly indefensible corner, so reckon we'll now see the whole thing quickly crumble in favour of the hard-working frontline train staff and the travelling public.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Just TREMENDOUS to see DfT finally on the back foot They won't have the balls or the logic to fight their frankly indefensible corner, so reckon we'll now see the whole thing quickly crumble in favour of the hard-working frontline train staff and the travelling public.

Right, so you think:-

1. Government will get exposed.
2. Southern will lose the franchise
3. Southern will be replaced by a new efficient operator who will cave in and completely withdraw from the previous negotiating position.
4. Strikes all cancelled. Unions applaud "a victory for common sense".
5. Status quo maintained.

Really?