Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Springal]

Points failure at Littlehampton meaning 07.19 west Worthing train is still sat there. Shower of shit. Poor bloke in the ticket office is getting both barrels from a few customers

 

[beorhthelm]

Was it National Rail decided to put four carriage trains on instead of eight...? And eight instead of 12...? And trains with no air conditioning?

i see so the omnishambles yesturday is due to some short trains, and air con, nothing whatsoever to do with a failing elsewhere in the network ? im not saying southern is with out any fault, just reading your post saying what the omnishambles is not about, it seem to ignore the cause and focus on the them. they've made themselves a target, i dont understand why people blame them for network failures (or fatalities when they occur). full length trains with working air cond would still have been stuck for hours last night, albeit in a little more comfort.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

i see so the omnishambles yesturday is due to some short trains, and air con, nothing whatsoever to do with a failing elsewhere in the network ? im not saying southern is with out any fault, just reading your post saying what the omnishambles is not about, it seem to ignore the cause and focus on the them. they've made themselves a target, i dont understand why people blame them for network failures (or fatalities when they occur). full length trains with working air cond would still have been stuck for hours last night, albeit in a little more comfort.

If people not fainting is what you mean by "albeit a little more comfort" then yes.

 

[The Albion Roar]

i see so the omnishambles yesturday is due to some short trains, and air con, nothing whatsoever to do with a failing elsewhere in the network ? im not saying southern is with out any fault, just reading your post saying what the omnishambles is not about, it seem to ignore the cause and focus on the them. they've made themselves a target, i dont understand why people blame them for network failures (or fatalities when they occur). full length trains with working air cond would still have been stuck for hours last night, albeit in a little more comfort.

To say "I'm not saying southern is with out any fault" is to utterly fail to comprehend what has been going on. It's a bit like looking to blame someone else for Joey Barton stamping on Beram Kayal. Southern is TOTALLY at fault.

You can continue burying your head in the sand over what the issues are if you wish, but meanwhile back in the real world, Southern chose to cancel several hundred trains a day. There was no need to; they simply used the dispute with the unions (which was manufactured by the government and GTR in collusion - Southern have pretty much admitted that), to say that extra sick days have been taken, and that was the reason for the cancellations. Sick days have been taken, but not to the extent that a third of the timetable needed to be cancelled.

But you've been told this so many times, as to have this post make no difference. As you've said, you 'dont understand why people blame them for network failures', even though the issues have been repeatedly posted on here, and you steadfastly refuse to believe them. Is there something about this whole farce which Southern themselves have admitted to that you know and no-one else does? What - to you - is the cause and focus of this dispute?

And are you ever going to say which issues that Guardian article doesn't cover?

 

[Gazwag]

. Nobody wins when Unions squabble with bosses

There is a winner it's the person in charge of the union, as always.

 

[pasty]

To say "I'm not saying southern is with out any fault" is to utterly fail to comprehend what has been going on. It's a bit like looking to blame someone else for Joey Barton stamping on Beram Kayal. Southern is TOTALLY at fault.

You can continue burying your head in the sand over what the issues are if you wish, but meanwhile back in the real world, Southern chose to cancel several hundred trains a day. There was no need to; they simply used the dispute with the unions (which was manufactured by the government and GTR in collusion - Southern have pretty much admitted that), to say that extra sick days have been taken, and that was the reason for the cancellations. Sick days have been taken, but not to the extent that a third of the timetable needed to be cancelled.

But you've been told this so many times, as to have this post make no difference. As you've said, you 'dont understand why people blame them for network failures', even though the issues have been repeatedly posted on here, and you steadfastly refuse to believe them. Is there something about this whole farce which Southern themselves have admitted to that you know and no-one else does? What - to you - is the cause and focus of this dispute?

And are you ever going to say which issues that Guardian article doesn't cover?

I think that all [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION] was trying to point out was that yesterdays carnage was caused primarily by the signal failure. Southern are not responsible for signals, so responsibility for yesterdays carnage can't be laid at their door. Hate to say it as Southern are a shower of shite and I would love to have blamed them for yesterday, but he is right isn't he?

 

[Easy 10]

I think that all [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION] was trying to point out was that yesterdays carnage was caused primarily by the signal failure. Southern are not responsible for signals, so responsibility for yesterdays carnage can't be laid at their door. Hate to say it, but he is right isn't he?

Personally I've always been deeply suspicious of the "signal failure" excuse that is routinely trotted out by SASTA - even more so now that we know full well that they blatantly lie about the reasons for trains being cancelled.

Regularly blaming signal failures for their rank incompetence is mostly bullshit. In my opinion.

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

Personally I've always been deeply suspicious of the "signal failure" excuse that is routinely trotted out by SASTA - even more so now that we know full well that they blatantly lie about the reasons for trains being cancelled.

Regularly blaming signal failures for their rank incompetence is mostly bullshit. In my opinion.

I agree with this. As Three Bridges has had major signalling upgrades I believe, for it to keep effing up like it (apparently...) does would be a scandal if true, but it's rarely mentioned this side of the Southern media team.

To me, it's like the D and V excuse if you don't fancy going to work. It's all rather easy and convenient.

 

[beorhthelm]

Personally I've always been deeply suspicious of the "signal failure" excuse that is routinely trotted out by SASTA - even more so now that we know full well that they blatantly lie about the reasons for trains being cancelled.

Regularly blaming signal failures for their rank incompetence is mostly bullshit. In my opinion.

you could always check Network Rail who say they had engineers working on signal problem at Gatwick. it does tell a tale about how poor Southern's reputation has sunk that anyone might believe they just make things up to excuse other problems.

 

[Ernest]

Southern managed the magic 1000+ cancellations last night

 

[The Albion Roar]

I think that all [MENTION=599]beorhthelm[/MENTION] was trying to point out was that yesterdays carnage was caused primarily by the signal failure. Southern are not responsible for signals, so responsibility for yesterdays carnage can't be laid at their door. Hate to say it as Southern are a shower of shite and I would love to have blamed them for yesterday, but he is right isn't he?

Some of it - a lot of it - can be blamed on them. If Network Rail are responsible for the signalling, GTR are responsible for the stations / trains.

We've had delays and cancellations before - it's SASTA's tour de force - and we've muddled on. But that's slightly different it taking four hours to get home from London, and thousands of people being locked out of Brighton Station.

What's evident is if there is a stand-by / emergency plan for this kind of eventuality (and 'signal failures' are hardly new), it clearly wasn't activated. No replacement buses on short-order stand-by, no other carriages were available. And if there weren't / aren't any contingency plans, why not?

These things cost, and as we've found out, SASTA / the government don't like spending money.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Some of it - a lot of it - can be blamed on them. If Network Rail are responsible for the signalling, GTR are responsible for the stations / trains.

We've had delays and cancellations before - it's SASTA's tour de force - and we've muddled on. But that's slightly different it taking four hours to get home from London, and thousands of people being locked out of Brighton Station.

What's evident is if there is a stand-by / emergency plan for this kind of eventuality (and 'signal failures' are hardly new), it clearly wasn't activated. No replacement buses on short-order stand-by, no other carriages were available. And if there weren't / aren't any contingency plans, why not?

These things cost, and as we've found out, SASTA / the government don't like spending money.

Sincere apologies if this is old news - I can't go back through 180 pages - but a family member who works for a company that has dealings with Govia believes that they have tried to divest themselves of the Southern and Thameslink franchises on four separate occasions on the grounds that they are impossible to run at a profit.

But after the fiasco of the East Coast, (when the Tory government was appalled to find that it could do a better job than its beloved private companies, and run it at a profit, which goes against everything it holds dear - so sold it off ASAP) that was not going to be permitted.

So they're trying to run it as badly as possible until the government simply has no option but to take it away.

This may, of course, be nonsense, but it makes perfect sense, and the person who told me is not given to flights of fancy.

 

[Simster]

Of course he is. It does't fit [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]'s agenda however.

Ernest's only agenda (over and above the rest of us) is that his former colleagues - those on the front line - don't get blamed for absolutely everything, and I don't see why you feel the need to CONSTANTLY snipe at him for it.

And he's right to do so, IMO. If you listen to the bollox spouted by the government, they only ever seem to want to blame union unrest for the total disgusting shambles that is quite blatantly at their door and of Southern Rail. If nothing else, managing industrial relations is part and parcel of running a train firm, and like everything else, Southern have failed dismally.

 

[Bozza]

Ernest's only agenda (over and above the rest of us) is that his former colleagues - those on the front line - don't get blamed for absolutely everything, and I don't see why you feel the need to CONSTANTLY snipe at him for it.

And he's right to do so, IMO. If you listen to the bollox spouted by the government, they only ever seem to want to blame union unrest for the total disgusting shambles that is quite blatantly at their door and of Southern Rail. If nothing else, managing industrial relations is part and parcel of running a train firm, and like everything else, Southern have failed dismally.

I'm not sure what any of that has got to do with [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]'s posts regarding Peter Kyle that were being discussed, but thanks anyway.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sincere apologies if this is old news - I can't go back through 180 pages - but a family member who works for a company that has dealings with Govia believes that they have tried to divest themselves of the Southern and Thameslink franchises on four separate occasions on the grounds that they are impossible to run at a profit.

But after the fiasco of the East Coast, (when the Tory government was appalled to find that it could do a better job than its beloved private companies, and run it at a profit, which goes against everything it holds dear - so sold it off ASAP) that was not going to be permitted.

So they're trying to run it as badly as possible until the government simply has no option but to take it away.

This may, of course, be nonsense, but it makes perfect sense, and the person who told me is not given to flights of fancy.

It's the only thing that does seem to make sense.

 

[Simster]

I'm not sure what any of that has got to do with [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]'s posts regarding Peter Kyle that were being discussed, but thanks anyway.

This sort of thing:

(you're welcome)

I love the way Peter Vile is tweeting about making sure the trains are ok for gay pride, he would be better off making sure they are ok for the poor punters using them day in , day out and having to put up with this

Of course he is. It does't fit [MENTION=1416]Ernest[/MENTION]'s agenda however.

 

[Gwylan]

you could always check Network Rail who say they had engineers working on signal problem at Gatwick. it does tell a tale about how poor Southern's reputation has sunk that anyone might believe they just make things up to excuse other problems.

Twice, when travelling with SASTA, I've heard three separate reasons for the train being delayed. Is it any wonder that people don't believe them?

Sincere apologies if this is old news - I can't go back through 180 pages - but a family member who works for a company that has dealings with Govia believes that they have tried to divest themselves of the Southern and Thameslink franchises on four separate occasions on the grounds that they are impossible to run at a profit.

I don't think this can be right. As has been pointed out several times on this thread, Govia get a management fee for Southern so don't have to run it at profit - they make money even if no-one uses it.

Now, it could be the case that the directors have decided that the management fee is too paltry for the grief they're getting, but that's a different matter

 

[beorhthelm]

Sincere apologies if this is old news - I can't go back through 180 pages - but a family member who works for a company that has dealings with Govia believes that they have tried to divest themselves of the Southern and Thameslink franchises on four separate occasions on the grounds that they are impossible to run at a profit.

i reckon that might be valid but out of date information, the franchises have merged only two years ago. prehaps their reluctance to continue was behind the idea to change the franchise to a subcontracted service management arrangment we have now?

 

[Bozza]

This sort of thing:

(you're welcome)

Exactly - his picking on one Peter Kyle tweet about Pride yet ignoring one about his concern about regular commuters doesn't fit his anti Peter Kyle agenda.

The one where Peter Kyle is really a Tory, apparently and should be expelled from the Labour Party.

 

[Taybha]

Oh hello , the BBC have caught on , things should be much better now they know .


Britain's biggest rail franchise in chaos