Great thanks. I wouldn't be allowed to say anything but hopefully some of my letter to Caroline will have sunk in. Don't let them get away with anything!!
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Southern Rail STRIKE details
- Thread starter Ernest
- Start date
Great thanks. I wouldn't be allowed to say anything but hopefully some of my letter to Caroline will have sunk in. Don't let them get away with anything!!
Great stuff - really interesting following the meeting via your tweets. Sounds like they were given a good grilling and didn't really have any answers other than "it's in the contract therefore we have to do it". So, as we all knew, passengers and staff are being used as scapegoats for the government to try to run a cheapskate and less safe railway.
The Albion Roar
97.2FM
Mood from the meeting moved from ambivalence about blame to fury at Southern.
SASTA had a glorious opportunity to explain their plans, and treated the assembled like they didn't matter. In winning over hearts and minds, they failed. Badly.
Talking in the bar afterwards - people are either fuming or baffled.
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SASTA had a glorious opportunity to explain their plans, and treated the assembled like they didn't matter. In winning over hearts and minds, they failed. Badly.
Talking in the bar afterwards - people are either fuming or baffled.
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Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
Geestar
New member
What time will people start leaving the match now....
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The Albion Roar
97.2FM
The one thing that stood out from the meeting was (and there were many things which struck me as just awful from SASTA tonight) the promise they'd made with the unions - after the latter had told them many times over the past 18 months that staff shortages were causing havoc, and that resources were being stretched thin - to increase conductor staff numbers by 38 won't now happen with the new timetable being brought in, as it's not deemed necessary.
That says to me that the 'temporary' timetable being brought in on Monday won't be temporary at all, especially if they have no intention of recruiting these extra staff.
Alex Foulds was the only one who spoke; of the other two, one's entire contribution was 'I'll only answer valid questions', while the other said nothing at all.
The mood started off with people not caring who was to blame (though mostly pointing out that it was Southern's obligation to resolve this dispute as they are the franchise holder), and ending with utter disgust for the contempt Southern have for their paying customers. Southern had a glorious opportunity to explain what they were doing and why they were doing it, but refused - merely saying 'we are making things better'. When challenged 'how', they said 'because we are'. No explanation, no details - nothing.
In short, not only were they not going to give the answers passengers wanted, their attitude was 'this is how it will be, deal with it...'. It also became more apparent that the three who did turn up were way below the appropriate level of people who should have attended. None of them - having being questioned at length - denied the contention that this dispute was being orchestrated by the government. In effect, they were pointing out that everything they (SASTA) do, is at the whim of the Department of Transport.
For example, if they don't fulfil the government's obligation of DOO, they would be in breach of contract. That said, they wouldn't say what the penalties were for that breach.
For those concerned about the safety issues the new system will bring (and this includes the industry's own safety board, paid for by the TOCs themselves), it was suggested that people don't write to the safety board - 'write to your MP'. "Right", said Caroline Lucas, slightly surprised at his industry suggestions, "I will write myself a very stern letter..."
No-one came away from that meeting filled with any kind of hope that things were about to get better.
That says to me that the 'temporary' timetable being brought in on Monday won't be temporary at all, especially if they have no intention of recruiting these extra staff.
Alex Foulds was the only one who spoke; of the other two, one's entire contribution was 'I'll only answer valid questions', while the other said nothing at all.
The mood started off with people not caring who was to blame (though mostly pointing out that it was Southern's obligation to resolve this dispute as they are the franchise holder), and ending with utter disgust for the contempt Southern have for their paying customers. Southern had a glorious opportunity to explain what they were doing and why they were doing it, but refused - merely saying 'we are making things better'. When challenged 'how', they said 'because we are'. No explanation, no details - nothing.
In short, not only were they not going to give the answers passengers wanted, their attitude was 'this is how it will be, deal with it...'. It also became more apparent that the three who did turn up were way below the appropriate level of people who should have attended. None of them - having being questioned at length - denied the contention that this dispute was being orchestrated by the government. In effect, they were pointing out that everything they (SASTA) do, is at the whim of the Department of Transport.
For example, if they don't fulfil the government's obligation of DOO, they would be in breach of contract. That said, they wouldn't say what the penalties were for that breach.
For those concerned about the safety issues the new system will bring (and this includes the industry's own safety board, paid for by the TOCs themselves), it was suggested that people don't write to the safety board - 'write to your MP'. "Right", said Caroline Lucas, slightly surprised at his industry suggestions, "I will write myself a very stern letter..."
No-one came away from that meeting filled with any kind of hope that things were about to get better.
Thanks for the write up and Twitter feed.
Soul destroying is n't it.
I went to the Hove meeting on Saturday whilst it was not as heated (in Hove, on a Saturday and in a church after all), it was equally unsatisfactory.,
The Albion Roar
97.2FM
Any time they said something, it was greeted with derision and disbelief.
To which they then said 'we don't care if you don't believe us, we're not wrong...'
driller
my life my word
The Albion Roar
97.2FM
When you say 'these ****s', I presume you mean the management - and you'd be right. Because it certainly isn't the staff causing this.
Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 9,120
It was indeed a very heated meeting last night, and sadly it seemed clear that the company were totally indifferent to the very real impact their appalling service was having on the lives of passengers. A shrug of the shoulders here, a 'we are trying to make things better' platitude there and one more lame excuse after the other.
It was also clear that the government have a rather large hand in this too. It's important that those affected passengers who are represented by Conservative MPs continue to contact them and keep the pressure on. Caroline Lucas and Peter Kyle are both on the case but their influence sadly carries less weight with the DfT and the ministers than their Conservative counterparts.
It was also clear that the government have a rather large hand in this too. It's important that those affected passengers who are represented by Conservative MPs continue to contact them and keep the pressure on. Caroline Lucas and Peter Kyle are both on the case but their influence sadly carries less weight with the DfT and the ministers than their Conservative counterparts.
Of all the live tweets last night (thanks Al), the one that genuinely shocked me was the one on recruitment and the 'emergency' timetable. I agree, that really told you all you need to know about their will and desire to sort this.
Well done to those who went, especially for keeping your temper. Not sure I could've been that controlled.
Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 9,120
Hmm....not entirely sure I managed that, which was a shame as I probably diluted my main comment with the end of my rantette. The SASTA guy looked fairly shellshocked by the end of the meeting, he was probably expecting a rough ride, but not quite the levels of hostility that were present in the room.
What's now clear is that this is entirely the Government's doing, but has been superbly mis-managed by GTR.
I think what people need to reaslise that local petitions aren't going to make a lot of difference as this is this is only the tip of the iceberg. The GTR experimental franchise is the model the the Government want to carry forward to all. It clearly isn't working, so unless the Govenment tear up the current GTR franchise and say, "Err, yeah, this isn't going tp work.", nationally it's only going to get worse.
I think what people need to reaslise that local petitions aren't going to make a lot of difference as this is this is only the tip of the iceberg. The GTR experimental franchise is the model the the Government want to carry forward to all. It clearly isn't working, so unless the Govenment tear up the current GTR franchise and say, "Err, yeah, this isn't going tp work.", nationally it's only going to get worse.
pearl
Well-known member
exactly! Demos at stns are pointless
Ernest
Stupid IDIOT
- Thread starter
- #1,600
TRAIN UNION RMT is offering a new approach in a bid to resolve the GTR dispute.
It is a dispute about the proposed removal of conductors from trains and the implications that removing these safety critically trained staff would have.
In an open letter to GTR Chief Executive Charles Horton, RMT General Secretary Mick Cash says,
“I refer to the recent hearing at the Transport Select Committee where we were both asked: What could be done to help resolve the current impasse?
You will also be aware that we will have both had numerous conversations with passengers and their Members of Parliament who are asking that we go the extra mile in seeking a resolution to the dispute.
I would therefore wish to develop the offer of the new approach I made at the Transport Select Committee.
The RMT will suspend calling any further industrial for the next three months if you will also suspend your proposals for a similar period.
This will then allow us the time and space to sit down together and try and explore options that will seek to deliver the lasting improvements to service and reliability we all want.
I do hope that you can respond positively to these proposals and I look forward to hearing from you.”
It is a dispute about the proposed removal of conductors from trains and the implications that removing these safety critically trained staff would have.
In an open letter to GTR Chief Executive Charles Horton, RMT General Secretary Mick Cash says,
“I refer to the recent hearing at the Transport Select Committee where we were both asked: What could be done to help resolve the current impasse?
You will also be aware that we will have both had numerous conversations with passengers and their Members of Parliament who are asking that we go the extra mile in seeking a resolution to the dispute.
I would therefore wish to develop the offer of the new approach I made at the Transport Select Committee.
The RMT will suspend calling any further industrial for the next three months if you will also suspend your proposals for a similar period.
This will then allow us the time and space to sit down together and try and explore options that will seek to deliver the lasting improvements to service and reliability we all want.
I do hope that you can respond positively to these proposals and I look forward to hearing from you.”