Southern Rail STRIKE details

[pasty]

I still don't really get the doors thing. What's the safety issue, that the doors close on someone? That someone falls down into the gap? Can that even happen?

As I see it, as a passenger, it is because a guard is stationed somewhere in the middle (ish) of a train, and can also get off and stand on the platform, look up and down to make sure it is safe and clear to shut the doors and move off. A driver on his own cannot possibly do that.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I still don't really get the doors thing. What's the safety issue, that the doors close on someone? That someone falls down into the gap? Can that even happen?

It can and does. Someone can get a coat or bag trapped in it and get dragged along the platform and under the train.

 

[Deadly Danson]

As I see it, as a passenger, it is because a guard is stationed somewhere in the middle (ish) of a train, and can also get off and stand on the platform, look up and down to make sure it is safe and clear to shut the doors and move off. A driver on his own cannot possibly do that.

That's it. The cameras are fitted looking directly along the train but we have no peripheral vision so, unlike the guard we cannot see people running for trains and the second power is taken, the monitors switch off. And the monitors are generally poor quality although admittedly better on the newer trains.

 

[yxee]

It can and does. Someone can get a coat or bag trapped in it and get dragged along the platform and under the train.

It sounds terrible.i just don't see how a human can help, unless you put over on every coach. Won't the camera do the same thing? If it's a tiny screen then they should get a better one.

Just thinking practically.

 

[Deadly Danson]

And this is the one question no one at GTR or the the government will answer: why on earth - when more and more people are using the trains - would you want to move from the safest method of dispatching trains that there is, to an undoubtedly less safe method of working? It is only down to saving money which no passenger will ever benefit from and that is why so many people are so angry.

 

[Deadly Danson]

It sounds terrible.i just don't see how a human can help, unless you put over on every coach. Won't the camera do the same thing? If it's a tiny screen then they should get a better one.

Just thinking practically.

I think both Pasty and Cosmic joker have covered this in their posts. It's the peripheral vision that the guard sees that makes the difference plus he/she being placed towards the middle of the train so they have the best view possible plus they can shout at people to stand clear.

 

[Deadly Danson]

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-launches-new-dossier-exposing-safety-risks-of-doo/ Not a bad little dossier the RMT issued yesterday giving a lot more information about the dangers of DOO.

And just as an aside - again today myself and a guard who were both ready to work a train from Eastbourne to Brighton were told it was cancelled due to staff shortages. Please don't believe the GTR spin.

 

[Ernest]

521 cancelled today now

 

[Leekbrookgull]

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-launches-new-dossier-exposing-safety-risks-of-doo/ Not a bad little dossier the RMT issued yesterday giving a lot more information about the dangers of DOO.

And just as an aside - again today myself and a guard who were both ready to work a train from Eastbourne to Brighton were told it was cancelled due to staff shortages. Please don't believe the GTR spin.

Don't know if its been posted but R4 today around 07-50 Dianne ?? from Southern was questioned over this about train crews being ready to go,but Southern refusing to dispatch them. Well worth a listern.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Try this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07flbs3#play

 

[Deadly Danson]

Don't know if its been posted but R4 today around 07-50 Dianne ?? from Southern was questioned over this about train crews being ready to go,but Southern refusing to dispatch them. Well worth a listern.

Haven't heard the interview but a few pages ago NotAndyNaylor called her evasive in that interview, didn't answer the questions and effectively admitted to lying about the cancellations. I've heard her particular type of spin before and it's not impressive. Reminds me of getting a letter from Bill Archer all those years ago telling me not to have a go at him as all he wanted was the best for the football club!

 

[Deadly Danson]

Try this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07flbs3#play

Thanks for that- that's just made me angry all over again! An utterly cringeworthy interview, full of obfuscation, some outright lies and mostly bullshit.

 

[beorhthelm]

Said it before, say it again, I just want to know what will happen to the current 'can the guard please contact the driver' scenarios? Somebody smoking in the bogs. Japanese tourist accidentally pressing the Emergency button instead of the Flush button. Passenger taken ill. Somebody pulls whatever they call the communication cord nowadays. Will the onboard trolley dollies be fully trained to deal with such scenarios, or will they say sorry mate not in my job description I'm way too busy selling Southern scratchcards. Who DEALS with those situations? Presumably the driver, who will have to stop the train, navigate his way back through up to twelve overcrowded carriages, assess the situation, then make his way back to his cabin. How long's that going to take? 10 minutes? 20 minutes? If Southern are so keen on trolley dollies, why don't they just employ some, and leave the guard responsible for the safety of the passengers, up to and including opening and closing the doors. The driver's got more than enough on his plate driving the thing. IMHO like.

good questions to raise. they arent unknown answers though, whats the procedure for these scenarios on the Gatwick Express, Thameslink and Metro services, and is that satisfactory?

 

[beorhthelm]

It sounds terrible.i just don't see how a human can help, unless you put over on every coach. Won't the camera do the same thing? If it's a tiny screen then they should get a better one.

Just thinking practically.

you could put a camera on each carriage to ensure better vision than the guard can have, and have a procedure that you cant power up until doors are closed. i have more faith in the ability of drivers to check a camera, see no one is there, shut the door, check doors shut, then engage the accelerator than other here seem to have. they seem to operate the rest of the train safely enough.

 

[Ernest]

Thanks for that- that's just made me angry all over again! An utterly cringeworthy interview, full of obfuscation, some outright lies and mostly bullshit.

Total car crash interview, unless she and her gang are sacked and moved out there will be no peace as things are too broken to be fixed by them

 

[South Stand Bonfire]

14.17 London to Littlehampton cancelled but only 2 minutes after the Brighton train had gone.
14.30 London to Brighton terminated at Gatwick
15.07 Gatwick to Brighton cancelled
Rush to platform 7 to get Thameslink to Brighton
Nice Canadian couple who have been travelling in the UK are utterly bewildered by what is going on. What can you say?!!

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Let's face it, cutting out all train staff other than the driver is being proposed for one reason, and one reason only . . . to save money.

And money is God unfortunately.

 

[The Albion Roar]

And this is the one question no one at GTR or the the government will answer: why on earth - when more and more people are using the trains - would you want to move from the safest method of dispatching trains that there is, to an undoubtedly less safe method of working? It is only down to saving money which no passenger will ever benefit from and that is why so many people are so angry.

And this is one thing which concerns me going forward...

Bearing in mind Southern aren't running a service - the football season is merely seven weeks away, and SASTA / the government are being pretty intransigent. The way things stand at present, trains from Brighton Station to Falmer on matchday are going to be infrequent, and subject to arbitrary cancellations.

It will follow that those trains which do run will be overcrowded. This will be compounded by the point that at London Road Station, where there are no station staff, there will be people trying to get on a very crowded train. Sometimes, and it has happened this season just gone, some very tight squashing is required, or people have to wait for the next train - assuming there will be one.

The conductors have been extremely cautious in making sure everyone is OK before closing the doors and moving off. My point is - at what point will a driver be able to make a decision (unless he leaves his cab) as to when to stop people from trying to get on the train, and be able to close the doors safely and move off...?

Worrying.

 

[Deadly Danson]

And this is one thing which concerns me going forward...

Bearing in mind Southern aren't running a service - the football season is merely seven weeks away, and SASTA / the government are being pretty intransigent. The way things stand at present, trains from Brighton Station to Falmer on matchday are going to be infrequent, and subject to arbitrary cancellations.

It will follow that those trains which do run will be overcrowded. This will be compounded by the point that at London Road Station, where there are no station staff, there will be people trying to get on a very crowded train. Sometimes, and it has happened this season just gone, some very tight squashing is required, or people have to wait for the next train - assuming there will be one.

The conductors have been extremely cautious in making sure everyone is OK before closing the doors and moving off. My point is - at what point will a driver be able to make a decision (unless he leaves his cab) as to when to stop people from trying to get on the train, and be able to close the doors safely and move off...?

Worrying.

Agree completely. Unless there are platform staff to assist the driver will never be able to move the train.

 

[Ernest]

Agree completely. Unless there are platform staff to assist the driver will never be able to move the train.

But they want to get rid of platform staff as well