Southern Rail STRIKE details

[The Large One]

Not disputing any of that, but incompetent management is a thing in all walks of life. As far as I'm concerned, you're all the same company and you don't operate with the customer in mind and never have. For that reason, I hold the whole lot of you in complete contempt.

Totally unreasonable summation.

To go against company orders (e.g. not allow disabled people on or off the train if it means delaying for an extra 30 seconds) is to risk discipline. This is incompetent management, pure and simple. To blame the drivers, OBS and platform staff for this total fiasco is lamentable - and these are the poor sods who get abused for their management's failings.

 

[Simster]

Totally unreasonable summation.

To go against company orders (e.g. not allow disabled people on or off the train if it means delaying for an extra 30 seconds) is to risk discipline. This is incompetent management, pure and simple. To blame the drivers, OBS and platform staff for this total fiasco is lamentable - and these are the poor sods who get abused for their management's failings.

I'm not having that. You are just misunderstanding my over-arching point, mate.

This instance may well have been down to shocking management, I agree. However, whatever the issue of the day is, the people working on the trains always prefer to play politics with passenger's lives rather than be pragmatic. Management act like twats and then throw their arms in the air when the workers don't like it. Equally, management will make minor tweaks (on the face of it) and workers go on strike with no regard to the convenience of those with no choice but to get caught up in it all.

I'm a paying "customer" who has formed a view based on decades of managerial incompetence, intransigent workers, appalling failures of government and most of all, absolutely shocking fare rises and degradation of service. What is lamentable is blaming me for daring to do so. I'm tired of the dirty linen being aired and being asked to take one side over the other. But if you want to take lines like "Managers straight out of Uni are just not up to the task" at face value, you go ahead and fill your boots. I'm just completely sick of it.

 

[Beach Hut]

Totally unreasonable summation.

To go against company orders (e.g. not allow disabled people on or off the train if it means delaying for an extra 30 seconds) is to risk discipline. This is incompetent management, pure and simple. To blame the drivers, OBS and platform staff for this total fiasco is lamentable - and these are the poor sods who get abused for their management's failings.

Staff which demand technology payments when new technology to sell tickets is introduced ?

So when my company gives me a new laptop or mobile phone I should demand a one-off payment ?

 

[Deadly Danson]

Staff which demand technology payments when new technology to sell tickets is introduced ?

So when my company gives me a new laptop or mobile phone I should demand a one-off payment ?

I genuinely don't know about this - could you provide a link to this? I'm not doubting you but would be interested about the nature of these payments. Or are you talking about staff being paid for training during their own time?

 

[beorhthelm]

so how was the travel chaos for everyone this morning? bit of a faff to adjust or still waiting to get to work?

 

[jasetheace]

so how was the travel chaos for everyone this morning? bit of a faff to adjust or still waiting to get to work?

The very early St Pancras and beyond trains were all cancelled. If anyone already knows if this is likely to continue, please let me know before I go through the rigmarole of contacting and/or looking elsewhere online (with gratitude for the fact you would have already gone through that rigmarole...)

 

[Springal]

The very early St Pancras and beyond trains were all cancelled. If anyone already knows if this is likely to continue, please let me know before I go through the rigmarole of contacting and/or looking elsewhere online (with gratitude for the fact you would have already gone through that rigmarole...)

I only noticed these last week.... would be interested to know as I have planned to get one to go to Liverpool early on Wednesday...

 

[albionite]

The very early St Pancras and beyond trains were all cancelled. If anyone already knows if this is likely to continue, please let me know before I go through the rigmarole of contacting and/or looking elsewhere online (with gratitude for the fact you would have already gone through that rigmarole...)

It’s going to continue at least untill June 8th and I would imagine longer.

 

[Beach Hut]

I genuinely don't know about this - could you provide a link to this? I'm not doubting you but would be interested about the nature of these payments. Or are you talking about staff being paid for training during their own time?

How can I provide a link to a Union agreement when I am not in that Union ?

And not talking about being paid to train

 

[Stat Brother]

You people of the train might 'enjoy' this morning tweet from Major of Manchester Andy Burnham:-

[tweet]998465310142365696[/tweet]

 

[Ernest]

How can I provide a link to a Union agreement when I am not in that Union ?

And not talking about being paid to train

What union dear boy and what agreement are you on about

 

[dazzer6666]

It’s going to continue at least untill June 8th and I would imagine longer.

I guess immediately implementing an 'emergency timetable' stops them having to pay out on delay repay cases for cancelled services.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The very early St Pancras and beyond trains were all cancelled. If anyone already knows if this is likely to continue, please let me know before I go through the rigmarole of contacting and/or looking elsewhere online (with gratitude for the fact you would have already gone through that rigmarole...)

I was away in Bedford for the weekend, and travelled up via Thameslink on Friday morning. I had used split ticketing so my return journey was supposed to be Bedford to St Pancras, and then St Pancras to Brighton.
I wasn't feeling too good yesterday evening, the hotel bed wasn't comfortable, and despite checking the train times for today, I couldn't see what had changed. My other half offered to drive up and pick me up after dinner, which I accepted.
Looking at the chaos today, I'm glad I did.

 

[theboybilly]

Not disputing any of that, but incompetent management is a thing in all walks of life. As far as I'm concerned, you're all the same company and you don't operate with the customer in mind and never have. For that reason, I hold the whole lot of you in complete contempt.

You do a lot of good people a great disservice with that last remark. Poor frontline folk get it constantly in the neck over things beyond their control but still go beyond the call of duty to be as much help as possible when things go t*ts up. Of course there is mismanagement in all walks of life but Southern/GTR are arrogant in their attitude to their customers even to the point of Angie Doll, one of Southern's senior Managers being accused by Paul Barber of being 'unprofessional' over communication about the strikes. Southern lie and spin at every turn. As an ex-driver I can only think of one instance where I witnessed a colleague deliberately make a train late so that the last bit of his turn was cancelled. That was in 30 years. Almost to a man I would say that railway staff do give a toss about passengers - especially the older ones. We know how it works and hate to see stupid decisions make easily avoided problems occur. And mostly it's about profit. If ever there was a company that would spend a fiver to save a quid it's Southern.

 

[Simster]

And you do some managers a disservice with your flippant "straight out of university" remark. Equally, I have spent 20 years putting up with rude, surly, front line staff. Generally speaking, I'd say your description of them bears no relation to a good percentage.

The bottom line is that I don't really care anyway. As far as I'm concerned the whole firm is rotten to the core and the staff and management are entirely consumed with self interest. Spare me the lecture over what I should and shouldn't think of your staff - until the next strike called on dubious grounds that demonstrate that neither side even bothered to properly speak to the other.

 

[Spiros]

You do a lot of good people a great disservice with that last remark. Poor frontline folk get it constantly in the neck over things beyond their control but still go beyond the call of duty to be as much help as possible when things go t*ts up. Of course there is mismanagement in all walks of life but Southern/GTR are arrogant in their attitude to their customers even to the point of Angie Doll, one of Southern's senior Managers being accused by Paul Barber of being 'unprofessional' over communication about the strikes. Southern lie and spin at every turn. As an ex-driver I can only think of one instance where I witnessed a colleague deliberately make a train late so that the last bit of his turn was cancelled. That was in 30 years. Almost to a man I would say that railway staff do give a toss about passengers - especially the older ones. We know how it works and hate to see stupid decisions make easily avoided problems occur. And mostly it's about profit. If ever there was a company that would spend a fiver to save a quid it's Southern.

As someone who has had the misfortune to rely upon the railways for a fair proportion of the last 35 years I would say that Simster has it spot on. Yes the management are incompetent but the unions are selfish and power hungry and in my own experience I have very rarely seen any member of the so-called fantastic front line staff go even close to 'above and beyond'.

Back in the halcyon days of public ownership the contempt which the average station staff member had for the travelling public was almost legendary. Some of those I encountered at Shoreham station in the 80s were very clear that the passengers were the cause of any and all problems on the railways and don't you dare try and bring a bike on 'my' train! Many was the time I had to get a ticket to an unfamiliar destination which caused the ticket clerk there to 1. Insist that I should go to either Brighton or Worthing to buy a ticket to Coventry or wherever because he 'didn't have the time' and 2. Point blank refuse to give me any information about train times or even allow me to look at the huge timetable manual he had.

Fast forward to 20 years ago and being stuck on Hove station where there was a broken down train. The information boards went blank. So what did the 'wonderful' staff do? Shut the ticket office and lock themselves in the little office on platform 2 refusing any attempts to get information from them. But I'm sure they're all diamond geezers really.

One thing I will say is that since they became 'on board supervisors' the front line staff do seem to try and be more helpful but they seem to be younger and not wearing any union badges. But I still reserve special contempt for the 2 guys who run the ticket office at Durrington. They are old school railway guys and still have that builtin contempt for anyone who wants something more complicated than a return to Brighton.

Like most passengers I didn't take sides in the RMT versus GTR dispute because you know they both win and the passengers lose whatever the outcome

 

[Spiros]

And you do some managers a disservice with your flippant "straight out of university" remark. Equally, I have spent 20 years putting up with rude, surly, front line staff. Generally speaking, I'd say your description of them bears no relation to a good percentage.

The bottom line is that I don't really care anyway. As far as I'm concerned the whole firm is rotten to the core and the staff and management are entirely consumed with self interest. Spare me the lecture over what I should and shouldn't think of your staff - until the next strike called on dubious grounds that demonstrate that neither side even bothered to properly speak to the other.

Very much this

 

[theboybilly]

And you do some managers a disservice with your flippant "straight out of university" remark. Equally, I have spent 20 years putting up with rude, surly, front line staff. Generally speaking, I'd say your description of them bears no relation to a good percentage.

The bottom line is that I don't really care anyway. As far as I'm concerned the whole firm is rotten to the core and the staff and management are entirely consumed with self interest. Spare me the lecture over what I should and shouldn't think of your staff - until the next strike called on dubious grounds that demonstrate that neither side even bothered to properly speak to the other.

If your bottom line is 'I don't really care' why post in the first place? I would imagine your knowledge of the strikes is very limited or obtained from articles in the Standard ( I was long gone by then mind ) I could see the flaws in the arguments of both sides from the beginning but then I know a fair bit about the railway. I actually predicted the storm brewing as soon as GoVia lost the franchise. The trouble is Southern don't understand railways and think they can run this one like a bus company.

 

[The Large One]

Very much this

Very much NOT this.

Blaming the unions and staff, and thinking it's OK to abuse them for this ongoing farce which has been entirely created by the DfT and GTR, is ludicrous. Simster may not care - Lord know he wants to tell everyone he doesn't care while using his scattergun approach to blame-laying - but that doesn't mean you have to scrape his personal barrel too. The point is, blaming staff behaviour from 30 or 40 years ago has no meaning here.

As it transpires, the RMT and ASLEF - who could have behaved so much better over the past two years themselves - called this problem long ago, and they've been proved right. Principally because they know what they're on about. Calling strikes is counter-productive - calling out the government for this calculated farce is bang on the money.

Have you seen the new staff handbook, sent down from on high at GTR, for dealing with PRMs (People with Reduced Mobility)...? It is appalling.

 

[Lower West Stander]

Very much NOT this.

Blaming the unions and staff, and thinking it's OK to abuse them for this ongoing farce which has been entirely created by the DfT and GTR, is ludicrous. Simster may not care - Lord know he wants to tell everyone he doesn't care while using his scattergun approach to blame-laying - but that doesn't mean you have to scrape his personal barrel too. The point is, blaming staff behaviour from 30 or 40 years ago has no meaning here.

As it transpires, the RMT and ASLEF - who could have behaved so much better over the past two years themselves - called this problem long ago, and they've been proved right. Principally because they know what they're on about. Calling strikes is counter-productive - calling out the government for this calculated farce is bang on the money.

Have you seen the new staff handbook, sent down from on high at GTR, for dealing with PRMs (People with Reduced Mobility)...? It is appalling.

No.

I’m entirely with Simster on this. As a long suffering commuter myself, I am sick and tired of listening to one side saying “it’s not my fault it’s yours”. As far as I am concerned the whole idea of management and staff is to provide a service which is fit for purpose. Between the, the government, Southern and the RMT have singularly failed to do this and descended into name calling. I pay over £4,000 a year for this shit.

I’m sick to the back teeth of the lot them.


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