Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Bozza]

So what is the point of this post ? Stick to having half a shandy on your Friday night drinkathon

Because, as others have highlighted, there will be current staff who won't be doing their utmost to help customers impacted by this dispute. In their minds, taking a "It's not out fault, it's Southern's fault" and being obstructive will be sticking it to the man. And the man always deserves it.

What Friday night drinkathon?

 

[yxee]

What plans does the RMT have in place to do anything else about the situation, or are they just one-trick ponies?

Why not go to the media and highlight every single point of their issues, why not go to the press and do the same, why not hold protests and rallies to get their views across to the people who matter, why not do something to combat the lies that they are allowing SASTA to foist onto their customers every single day?

They're looking after their own stakeholders. Personally I would prefer they didn't strike, but at least there was some certainty around that. The mess since then is just stupid.

Write to your MPs.

 

[The Clamp]

There are many services that are driver only. There are no major problems with this.

 

[beorhthelm]

They really really do all of the above.

they really dont. they would have a great deal of support from the public who dislike and distrust the rail companies from years of problems. instead they roll out their c1970's press releases using bombastic, evocative language, and crys about safety. and that might be true this time but living in or commuting to London for 15 years, i've heard that used for every rail and tube dispute every damn year so its a case of crying wolf. look at the way you want to portray this as a DFT/Government/GTR conspiracy to provide a poor service: for exactly what purpose would that be? i can prefectly accept incompetence in the management, as they say assume a cockup before conspiracy.

 

[thedonkeycentrehalf]

Statistics and Lies - lack of train crew cancels services. We have seen plenty of these announcements.

As it is the school holidays, Mrs DCH took our daughter to Brighton on the train today to do some shopping. Journey back was a bit of a nightmare because of the fatality at East Worthing - sadly these things happen.

However, her journey to Brighton was comical. She took the Victoria bound train from West Worthing to Hove and dutifully crossed the platform to get the shuttle to Brighton. This was then announced as being cancelled due to a lack of train crew. The passengers were a little bemused but not as much as the driver and guard who were already on the train! The driver made a point of telling everyone that they were there and ready to go. He tried to call someone to find out the status of the service as nobody had told him it was cancelled. After about 15 minutes, he shouted down the platform for all the passengers to board as he was going to take the train to Brighton anyway.

When something like this happens, SASTA deserve all the criticism heading their way as it shows their contempt for the fare paying public.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Statistics and Lies - lack of train crew cancels services. We have seen plenty of these announcements.

As it is the school holidays, Mrs DCH took our daughter to Brighton on the train today to do some shopping. Journey back was a bit of a nightmare because of the fatality at East Worthing - sadly these things happen.

However, her journey to Brighton was comical. She took the Victoria bound train from West Worthing to Hove and dutifully crossed the platform to get the shuttle to Brighton. This was then announced as being cancelled due to a lack of train crew. The passengers were a little bemused but not as much as the driver and guard who were already on the train! The driver made a point of telling everyone that they were there and ready to go. He tried to call someone to find out the status of the service as nobody had told him it was cancelled. After about 15 minutes, he shouted down the platform for all the passengers to board as he was going to take the train to Brighton anyway.

When something like this happens, SASTA deserve all the criticism heading their way as it shows their contempt for the fare paying public.

And there you have it - what we have to contend with every day. Some on here still don't believe this whole mess is down to Southern incompetence and prefer to blame drivers and guards.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm not convinced. There are many driver only services in the SE, all run smoothly. looks like Southern have realised this and in order to streamline they are switching to driver only services. Perfectly reasonable. Works fantastically well across most of Europe. Southern staff have understandably kicked off as many of them will be obsolete as the industry moves forward. Striking did them no good so now they are having a tantrum and childishly refusing to perform their normal duties. Pissing everyone off in the meantime. My only complaint is that the savings will be passed onto shateholders not the customers.

Get back to your jobs while you've still got them.

 

[Deadly Danson]

they really dont. they would have a great deal of support from the public who dislike and distrust the rail companies from years of problems. instead they roll out their c1970's press releases using bombastic, evocative language, and crys about safety. and that might be true this time but living in or commuting to London for 15 years, i've heard that used for every rail and tube dispute every damn year so its a case of crying wolf. look at the way you want to portray this as a DFT/Government/GTR conspiracy to provide a poor service: for exactly what purpose would that be? i can prefectly accept incompetence in the management, as they say assume a cockup before conspiracy.

For what it's worth I'm not an huge fan of some of the language used by the RMT but as proved by Frutos' post, if you don't shout loudly sometimes no one hears. The whole issue is obviously not a conspiracy to try and provide a bad service - the government/GTR/dft want to somehow provide the same or better service by using as few staff as humanly possible and to hell with safety and if they can get rid of the unions whilst they are at it then they will be even happier. It's quite possible the Dft believes more DOO is actually the best way to go but I and everyone I know who has any knowledge of the industry couldn't disagree more for all the reasons that have been gone through in this thread. What is definitely a conspiracy is the lengths GTR will go to blame drivers and guards for their own incompetence.

 

[Bozza]

the government/GTR/dft want to somehow provide the same or better service by using as few staff as humanly possible and to hell with safety

You see you've done it again right there.

Those organisations will absolutely not be looking to severely compromise safety intentionally. I don't dispute that you believe the changes will result in reduced safety, but that does not mean that those looking to make the changes are looking for that outcome.

Haven't you said that Thameslink run in the fashion now being proposed across the Southern network now? Where were the strikes, "illnesses" and working to rule to get this supposedly inherently unsafe practice?

 

[Deadly Danson]

I'm not convinced. There are many driver only services in the SE, all run smoothly. looks like Southern have realised this and in order to streamline they are switching to driver only services. Perfectly reasonable. Works fantastically well across most of Europe. Southern staff have understandably kicked off as many of them will be obsolete as the industry moves forward. Striking did them no good so now they are having a tantrum and childishly refusing to perform their normal duties. Pissing everyone off in the meantime. My only complaint is that the savings will be passed onto shateholders not the customers.

Get back to your jobs while you've still got them.

I'm not going into the multitude of reasons again why I feel DOO is inherently unsafe - all the arguments have been presented in this thread. As a driver it won't particularly make my job harder, I don't want more money to work DOO but I am passionate about it being less safe and that is why I am prepared to strike. Ask yourself this- which do you think is SAFER on an ever busier network - having one safety critical member of staff i.e the driver onboard or two, the driver and a guard who can dispatch 100 times more safely and assist in any emergency. Any business should be endeavouring to make their service MORE safe, not AS safe or LESS safe. Sorry you can't be convinced but I hope no one that matters to you is dragged under train when the driver can't view his monitors clearly or is assaulted in Coach 12 of a DOO train with the driver oblivious.

 

[The Clamp]

I'm not going into the multitude of reasons again why I feel DOO is inherently unsafe - all the arguments have been presented in this thread. As a driver it won't particularly make my job harder, I don't want more money to work DOO but I am passionate about it being less safe and that is why I am prepared to strike. Ask yourself this- which do you think is SAFER on an ever busier network - having one safety critical member of staff i.e the driver onboard or two, the driver and a guard who can dispatch 100 times more safely and assist in any emergency. Any business should be endeavouring to make their service MORE safe, not AS safe or LESS safe. Sorry you can't be convinced but I hope no one that matters to you is dragged under train when the driver can't view his monitors clearly or is assaulted in Coach 12 of a DOO train with the driver oblivious.

I and indeed my family have being using DOO services throughout the UK and Europe for over ten years and not once has our safety been compromised. I think your carriage attendants are just going to have to fsce up to the fact they aren;t really needed. Sorry.

 

[Deadly Danson]

You see you've done it again right there.

Those organisations will absolutely not be looking to severely compromise safety intentionally. I don't dispute that you believe the changes will result in reduced safety, but that does not mean that those looking to make the changes are looking for that outcome.

Haven't you said that Thameslink run in the fashion now being proposed across the Southern network now? Where were the strikes, "illnesses" and working to rule to get this supposedly inherently unsafe practice?

Fair enough - they are not looking for that outcome I agree but I suspect they look at the reduced safety as collateral damage. I think Ernest covered how Thameslink became DOO elsewhere in this thread if I remember rightly (most of it was before my time) but sadly part of it was that drivers "took the money" when it was offered to them to as an inducement to increase DOO - an incredibly short sighted view in my opinion.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I and indeed my family have being using DOO services throughout the UK and Europe for over ten years and not once has our safety been compromised. I think your carriage attendants are just going to have to fsce up to the fact they aren;t really needed. Sorry.

It will only need to be ONCE. I've never needed cabin crew or emergency chutes yet on a plane but I'm glad they are there.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Those organisations will absolutely not be looking to severely compromise safety intentionally. I don't dispute that you believe the changes will result in reduced safety, but that does not mean that those looking to make the changes are looking for that outcome.

But they will have done a cost analysis, if only a mental one, and reasoned that x fatalities and y lost limbs given a return of z is a price worth paying. If you don't think that then I suspect you haven't grasped the nature of capitalism.

 

[The Clamp]

It will only need to be ONCE. I've never needed cabin crew or emergency chutes yet on a plane but I'm glad they are there.

Believe me, if something threatened my or my families safety on a train, the very last person I would look to for help would be the corpulent, un-ironed , tobacco stained carriage attendants who if experience is anything to go by can barely manage to do up their flys let alone lead a train of 500 people to safety. Having said that, I hope not too many of them lose their jobs, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Wish they were better at it, mind.

 

[AK74]

And there you have it - what we have to contend with every day. Some on here still don't believe this whole mess is down to Southern incompetence and prefer to blame drivers and guards.

A question for you DD: do you have a feedback mechanism to tell your boss (I'll guess at the title of Driver Manager) about how bad things are on the front-line, and are they sympathetic/accepting of what you/your colleagues tell them?

No ulterior motive in asking, I'm just curious.

 

[Deadly Danson]

A question for you DD: do you have a feedback mechanism to tell your boss (I'll guess at the title of Driver Manager) about how bad things are on the front-line, and are they sympathetic/accepting of what you/your colleagues tell them?

No ulterior motive in asking, I'm just curious.

We do. They are only too aware to be honest. Most of them at the level I deal with are sympathetic and hate having to implement what their bosses want - the problem is much higher up the food chain. That's not to say they are not without their faults however.

 

[AK74]

We do. They are only too aware to be honest. Most of them at the level I deal with are sympathetic and hate having to implement what their bosses want - the problem is much higher up the food chain. That's not to say they are not without their faults however.

Thanks, I appreciate the candid answer.

 

[beorhthelm]

It will only need to be ONCE. I've never needed cabin crew ...

who served your peanuts and drinks?

 

[Deadly Danson]

who served your peanuts and drinks?

It's a fair cop. Rumbled.