Lush
Mods' Pet
Meanwhile the 7.32am from Brighton to London Bridge, which was nowhere to be found on the timetable, was waiting at the station this morning.
They're just making it up as they go along.
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Southern Rail STRIKE details
- Thread starter Ernest
- Start date
Meanwhile the 7.32am from Brighton to London Bridge, which was nowhere to be found on the timetable, was waiting at the station this morning.
They're just making it up as they go along.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
is it published? i picked up the newest timetable on or about the 11th December starting that date, and it has all the "normal" services on it (that i'm familiar with), including twice hourly Eastbourne. not what shows on the national rail, and not seen anything published, so it must be an emergency time table and you can still claim. i dont believe they can just change the published timetable on whim, but can with emergency one.
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,321
They're now just constantly pushing the envelope as to how much/little they can get away with, and still get paid. This is what pure naked capitalist greed with unlimited Get Out Of Jail cards looks like. Quite vile. Just say no, kidz
RAIL UNION RMT says that today’s revelations in the media that the DfT intend to rig the rail franchise market to ensure privateers have their profits protected must be explained to Parliament and rail passengers.
The Department for Transport’s Managing Director of Passenger Services has admitted to rigging the so called rail franchise market in order to boost company’s profits at the expense of passengers.
In a news story today in The Times newspaper devastating details have emerged of a ‘private meeting’ between Peter Wilkinson and HSBC bank in which it is alleged he revealed how the Department will loosen financial agreements to “protect future franchises” and even “retrofit” existing franchises to alleviate the impact of any fall in passenger numbers.
Previously, Mr Wilkinson is on record as saying that train drivers that resist changes to their working practices can "get the hell out of my industry”
Mick Cash RMT General Secretary said:
“This should come as no surprise to passengers experiencing fare increases today and simply confirms what we have been consistently saying for over twenty years.
“Train operating company profits are not earned in the market but politically fabricated out of regulatory obfuscation, political expediency and dodgy contracts which create profitable positions for private shareholders in a subsidised industry.
“How the Managing Director of Passenger Services can be promising a bank protection for this bogus profit laundering franchising system is beyond belief and is something the Secretary of State must urgently explain to Parliament.”
Ends.
Rail franchises’ timetable subject to delays — to boost operators’ profits
Robert Lea, Industrial Editor
January 3 2017, 12:01am, The Times
A new west coast main line franchise has been delayed until April 2019. The move means that Virgin Trains will have been running the west coast line for 22 years
The changeovers of four of the largest rail franchises have been delayed by up to a year as transport officials admit that they are having to alter terms and conditions to enable train operators to make big enough profits.
The latest schedule published by the Department for Transport has revealed that more than half of the seven operating licences due to be in the retendering process this year have been put back.
Details have emerged of a private meeting between Peter Wilkinson, managing director of passenger services at the DfT, and a top City bank, in which the official is said to have revealed that the department will loosen franchise financial agreements because of a slowdown in the economy.
Mr Wilkinson, who is at the centre of the row between Southern Railway and its staff over his use of anti-trade union rhetoric, is said to have told HSBC analysts that the department would “protect future franchises” against economic weakness and even “retrofit” existing franchises to alleviate the impact of falling passenger revenues.
The opening months of 2017 were due to be a busy period, but the transport department has struggled to keep to its timetable since the 2012 fiasco of the retendering of the west coast main line, and its scheduling reveals that the long-delayed west coast main line and Great Western retenders have been put back another year.
It also shows that the biggest immediate refranchising, of the London Waterloo-based South West Trains, has been put back two months, with a decision on the new operator not due now until April and with the changeover put back until August.
On Southeastern, an invitation to tender due in the spring has been put back to the autumn. The franchise, which London’s mayor has said should be taken over, at least in part, by Transport for London, is now not scheduled to start until December 2018, six months late.
A new west coast main line franchise has been delayed until April 2019 because of the transport department’s decision to award the licence jointly with the operator of the new HS2 rail line that will also run out of London Euston. It means that Virgin Trains will have been running the west coast line for 22 years.
The delay in refranchising Great Western, the department says, is down to its ruminations over whether it can achieve the “aim of closer integration of track and train”, effectively a merger of the train operator and the regional operations of Network Rail. This delay means that FirstGroup will have been running the franchise unchallenged for 24 years by the time a new licence starts in April 2020.
The retenders of West Midlands, East Midlands and Wales & Borders are running on time, but Mr Wilkinson’s comments to HSBC suggest that negotiations will favour the train operators.
In a note of the meeting, HSBC said that the official had confirmed that revenues were weak because of slowing economic growth, passengers choosing to fly or drive and growing numbers of commuters choosing to work from home.
The note says: “[The DfT] expects to adjust the risk-sharing mechanism to better protect future franchises against similar problems. We were surprised to hear that even existing franchises could be ‘retro-fitted’ with changes that could alleviate some pressure.”
Joe Thomas, HSBC’s transport analyst, said: “Some of the early franchises to be awarded have already hit trading difficulties and we did not hear much to make us more optimistic for them. What did encourage us, however, was the pragmatic response of the DfT to future ones, with continued changes to the risk-sharing mechanism and a recognition that not all operators’ problems are self-inflicted.”
Crossrail’s operator at key point
This is set to be a breakthrough year for MTR, one of a host of foreign-owned train operators in the UK. The operator of the mass transit railway in Hong Kong is set to take charge of running Crossrail, the £15 billion new trans-London train line.
MTR is already running a shadow service on the eastern part of Crossrail over existing lines between Shenfield in Essex and London Liverpool Street. From May the service will become identifiably Crossrail when the first trains arrive from the Bombardier factory in Derby. The wi-fi-enabled, air-conditioned trains, which are 200 metres long and capable of carrying 1,500 people at a time on a schedule of one every two minutes, will shuttle on this eastern section for a year.
After that, in May 2018, MTR will take control of the western section of Crossrail on existing lines and will replace the existing FirstGroup Connect services between Heathrow and Paddington with the Bombardier Aventra trains. The first trains going through the newly built tunnels under London are due to run by December 2018, with the network set to be fully operational in December 2019.
Last year MTR lost its licence to jointly run London Overground, but it aims to make up for that with bids to operate or jointly run South West Trains and Wales & Borders.
MTR will also be in the vanguard of those wanting to take part in the construction of Britain’s first privately built railway since Victorian times, the East West Railway between Cambridge and Oxford, which the government expects to be partly privately financed.
The Department for Transport’s Managing Director of Passenger Services has admitted to rigging the so called rail franchise market in order to boost company’s profits at the expense of passengers.
In a news story today in The Times newspaper devastating details have emerged of a ‘private meeting’ between Peter Wilkinson and HSBC bank in which it is alleged he revealed how the Department will loosen financial agreements to “protect future franchises” and even “retrofit” existing franchises to alleviate the impact of any fall in passenger numbers.
Previously, Mr Wilkinson is on record as saying that train drivers that resist changes to their working practices can "get the hell out of my industry”
Mick Cash RMT General Secretary said:
“This should come as no surprise to passengers experiencing fare increases today and simply confirms what we have been consistently saying for over twenty years.
“Train operating company profits are not earned in the market but politically fabricated out of regulatory obfuscation, political expediency and dodgy contracts which create profitable positions for private shareholders in a subsidised industry.
“How the Managing Director of Passenger Services can be promising a bank protection for this bogus profit laundering franchising system is beyond belief and is something the Secretary of State must urgently explain to Parliament.”
Ends.
Rail franchises’ timetable subject to delays — to boost operators’ profits
Robert Lea, Industrial Editor
January 3 2017, 12:01am, The Times
A new west coast main line franchise has been delayed until April 2019. The move means that Virgin Trains will have been running the west coast line for 22 years
The changeovers of four of the largest rail franchises have been delayed by up to a year as transport officials admit that they are having to alter terms and conditions to enable train operators to make big enough profits.
The latest schedule published by the Department for Transport has revealed that more than half of the seven operating licences due to be in the retendering process this year have been put back.
Details have emerged of a private meeting between Peter Wilkinson, managing director of passenger services at the DfT, and a top City bank, in which the official is said to have revealed that the department will loosen franchise financial agreements because of a slowdown in the economy.
Mr Wilkinson, who is at the centre of the row between Southern Railway and its staff over his use of anti-trade union rhetoric, is said to have told HSBC analysts that the department would “protect future franchises” against economic weakness and even “retrofit” existing franchises to alleviate the impact of falling passenger revenues.
The opening months of 2017 were due to be a busy period, but the transport department has struggled to keep to its timetable since the 2012 fiasco of the retendering of the west coast main line, and its scheduling reveals that the long-delayed west coast main line and Great Western retenders have been put back another year.
It also shows that the biggest immediate refranchising, of the London Waterloo-based South West Trains, has been put back two months, with a decision on the new operator not due now until April and with the changeover put back until August.
On Southeastern, an invitation to tender due in the spring has been put back to the autumn. The franchise, which London’s mayor has said should be taken over, at least in part, by Transport for London, is now not scheduled to start until December 2018, six months late.
A new west coast main line franchise has been delayed until April 2019 because of the transport department’s decision to award the licence jointly with the operator of the new HS2 rail line that will also run out of London Euston. It means that Virgin Trains will have been running the west coast line for 22 years.
The delay in refranchising Great Western, the department says, is down to its ruminations over whether it can achieve the “aim of closer integration of track and train”, effectively a merger of the train operator and the regional operations of Network Rail. This delay means that FirstGroup will have been running the franchise unchallenged for 24 years by the time a new licence starts in April 2020.
The retenders of West Midlands, East Midlands and Wales & Borders are running on time, but Mr Wilkinson’s comments to HSBC suggest that negotiations will favour the train operators.
In a note of the meeting, HSBC said that the official had confirmed that revenues were weak because of slowing economic growth, passengers choosing to fly or drive and growing numbers of commuters choosing to work from home.
The note says: “[The DfT] expects to adjust the risk-sharing mechanism to better protect future franchises against similar problems. We were surprised to hear that even existing franchises could be ‘retro-fitted’ with changes that could alleviate some pressure.”
Joe Thomas, HSBC’s transport analyst, said: “Some of the early franchises to be awarded have already hit trading difficulties and we did not hear much to make us more optimistic for them. What did encourage us, however, was the pragmatic response of the DfT to future ones, with continued changes to the risk-sharing mechanism and a recognition that not all operators’ problems are self-inflicted.”
Crossrail’s operator at key point
This is set to be a breakthrough year for MTR, one of a host of foreign-owned train operators in the UK. The operator of the mass transit railway in Hong Kong is set to take charge of running Crossrail, the £15 billion new trans-London train line.
MTR is already running a shadow service on the eastern part of Crossrail over existing lines between Shenfield in Essex and London Liverpool Street. From May the service will become identifiably Crossrail when the first trains arrive from the Bombardier factory in Derby. The wi-fi-enabled, air-conditioned trains, which are 200 metres long and capable of carrying 1,500 people at a time on a schedule of one every two minutes, will shuttle on this eastern section for a year.
After that, in May 2018, MTR will take control of the western section of Crossrail on existing lines and will replace the existing FirstGroup Connect services between Heathrow and Paddington with the Bombardier Aventra trains. The first trains going through the newly built tunnels under London are due to run by December 2018, with the network set to be fully operational in December 2019.
Last year MTR lost its licence to jointly run London Overground, but it aims to make up for that with bids to operate or jointly run South West Trains and Wales & Borders.
MTR will also be in the vanguard of those wanting to take part in the construction of Britain’s first privately built railway since Victorian times, the East West Railway between Cambridge and Oxford, which the government expects to be partly privately financed.
Tony Meolas Loan Spell
Slut Faced Whores
Ha! Yes I saw that. At 11.30pm yesterday it wasnt there. Checked at 6am this morning and there it was!
Tony Meolas Loan Spell
Slut Faced Whores
If Ibwas you I would be claiming every day and put an explanation in that little box as I gtee they will try the not published route.
But keep resubmitting amd resubmitting and resubmitting and resubmitting and resublitting...
pasty
A different kind of pasty
Question for anyone that tried to get to Victoria today. I assume the GE services are running pretty much as normal from Gatwick to Victoria and back so is the best option trying to get to Gatwick and back from Brighton using Thameslink and then use GE from Gatwick?
CherryInHove
Active member
- Apr 16, 2015
- 154
I got the 6:40 Southern service from Preston Park direct to Victoria with no problems at all, so if you're happy to set off early that's a good option.
pasty
A different kind of pasty
Really? Where did that originate from? My usual is the 06.30 GE from Brighton and when I got up this morning and checked the live trains thingy online, the only direct trains to Victoria from Brighton showing were the 6:46 followed by the 8:46 !
CherryInHove
Active member
- Apr 16, 2015
- 154
Sorry. I meant 6:50 so guess that would have been the 6:46 from Brighton.
CherryInHove
Active member
- Apr 16, 2015
- 154
As an update, I'm now on the 1706 southern service home which had left on time.
Yoda
English & European
Something occurred to me last night for the real reasoning. The reduced services is not soley down to anything to do with a lack of drivers due to the overtime ban, but a lack of rolling stock they will now be able to use across the entire network.
Think about it, SASTA are now running DOO across almost the entire network now. The 313 class trains do not have the equipment to run as DOO meaning they've had to pull stock from other lines to cover other parts of the network.
This is evidence that the UK privatised train franchise system is failing. Ticket prices have now risen high enough that it is in many cases more cost effective for commuters to travel by other means.
I'm one of those who made that choice. For the vast majority of my life I resisted getting a car licence. In March I'll have been commuting from Uckfield to Uxbridge for 5 years. Initially I was doing it on motorcycle (around the M25) during the daylight savings months, and by train / underground during the winter. February 2015 (long before the current strike issues started, but even then SASTA were struggling to fully staff their routes and maintain a reliable schedule), I took the decision to go out and get my car licence - having been failed one time too many by Southern. I did my sums, crunched the numbers in my budget, and discovered that I could buy a car (OK, it was just an Aygo), fuel, insure, and service that car, and across a 7 year period (which a modern car should easily cope with, even with the distances I'm doing) it would save me money vs using the train. And those sums were done back when fuel was running at well over 140p (as opposed to the rough 105p I was paying for most of the time I owned the Aygo). The car also reliably gets me home a full hour earlier, and delays are both less frequent, and less lengthy.
Since then I've been promoted, sold the Aygo, and picked up a Prius company car. I now only use the trains for company events that take us into central London, and even then I've been let down badly by Govia-owned franchises. While it's difficult to blame them for delays caused by National Rail faults, I can and will blame them (squarely) for the appalling bad way they communicate about said issues: they *always* heavily underestimate the scale of the delays, and rarely are able to provide regular, timely and accurate information about alternative routing.
I'm sure the government would far rather people like me used the trains then helping to clog up the motorways. The existing franchise system just isn't fit for purpose to do that, though. Annoyingly, when you look at the rail system the Victorians built you can see that they had a future vision of what would be needed eventually but over time successive governments have managed to unpick a lot of it (especially in the south east) and created our current problem where the BML simply cannot run enough capacity. The connecting lines that have been long closed (and are now either completely gone or used as historic lines such as the Bluebell) are now sorely needed - not just to provide a second route into London from Brighton, but also to provide alternative routing in the event of issues on the BML.
Have to wonder what their plans are for the Uckfield to London line in the near future. It's still diesel, much of it single-line, and during peak morning running full carriages from about 2 or 3 stops into the journey (Uck to Lon) or sardine cans from London outwards in the evening. Last I heard there are approved plans for something like 1000 new houses in Uckfield ... the current train line won't support the increase in commuters that represents.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
[tweet]816575847276642305[/tweet]
for those on Tapatalk
BREAKING - 6-day strike by drivers on [MENTION=26542]Southern[/MENTION]RailUK from Monday, cut to three days, but there is a likelihood of further action.
for those on Tapatalk
BREAKING - 6-day strike by drivers on [MENTION=26542]Southern[/MENTION]RailUK from Monday, cut to three days, but there is a likelihood of further action.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
possibly a factor, certainly explain the lack of Seaford service. though it doesn't explain the failure to run the twice hourly trains to Littlehampton/Eastbourne which still run as 8 out of Victoria but dont split (or did they alternate with a 12 then split 8/4?). or the biggest mystery why the GW has reverted to Gatwick only, complete speculation on my part here, i wonder if that's because the extension to Brighton was on-contractual so effectively only run on an overtime/voluntary condition basis? i cant think of a sane reason these aren't running to help improve the situation, unless we buy in to the conspiracies that Southern are deliberately borking services to make union look worse (which i dont discount entirely, but cant see they'd go so far)
Peter Grummit
Well-known member
Tuesday Wednesday Friday next week. Makes train to PNE slightly easier, in theory.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 36,014
the increase in passengers and number of services might suggest otherwise. what that quoted article is really saying is, if you invest in rail franchises the government will cover projected returns even if passenger income drops. i thought that what the union want, more subsidy, but apparently only if its going to bond holders rather than private companies.
theres the crux of the matter, the system is Victorian and beyond its capacity. BML2 is a pipe dream because it wouldn't be remotely cost effective (unless you want more tax payer subsidy) and little used outside peak, and still face the fundamental problem of bottle neck around Croydon. the investment is needed to improve track and signalling to get more trains through there and fix the recurring issues along the rest of the line (always seems to be the same 2 or 3 spots, though i dont know how accurately they report where issues are). this is why Gatwick second runway would have been such a good thing, the cash would have been there to fix this.
