Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Papa Lazarou]

Utter nonsense. Actually in many cases the picture we have is much worse.

This is what NSC looks like on my phone. Not that clear

 

[Billy the Fish]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...force-their-way-out-of-broken-down-train.html oh really? Never ever underestimate what passengers will do.

15 out of a busy train and nobody was hurt or killed. It's not exactly a train full of people "spilling out onto the track to be mown down" is it?

I took a photo of a screen with a camera. I agree the quality is slightly worse but not much. In my photo the webcam image is still clear.
So I would challenge your assertion that it's "worthless propaganda".

That is much worse! You also need to get your screen or eyes checked if you think there's not much difference.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

15 out of a busy train and nobody was hurt or killed. It's not exactly a train full of people "spilling out onto the track to be mown down" is it?



That is much worse! You also need to get your screen or eyes checked if you think there's not much difference.

Fuengirola always looks like that - slightly 'wavy'

 

[happypig]

That is much worse! You also need to get your screen or eyes checked if you think there's not much difference.

It's still clear enough to make out a lot of detail. You are just being deliberately obtuse, I think you are Charles Horton and I claim my five pounds.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

It's still clear enough to make out a lot of detail. You are just being deliberately obtuse, I think you are Charles Horton and I claim my five pounds.

Sorry. I thought you were posting that photo to support the case that a camera reduces the image. The photo was considerably altered from what you'd see on your HD screened computer.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

15 out of a busy train and nobody was hurt or killed. It's not exactly a train full of people "spilling out onto the track to be mown down" is it?

That is much worse! You also need to get your screen or eyes checked if you think there's not much difference.

Why do you keep having repeated pops at a current train driver [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION]? It's not you that will be up in court on a possible manslaughter charge because some smartass lawyer 'proves' you failed to monitor a 12 car train in 2 point something seconds through a grainy monitor while trying to simultaneously monitor the track ahead. And all to provide some wanker shareholders with an extra tuppence per share dividend. Seriously shitty point of view. IMHO, like. Word with yourself?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Why do you keep having repeated pops at a current train driver [MENTION=1332]Deadly Danson[/MENTION]? It's not you that will be up in court on a possible manslaughter charge because some smartass lawyer 'proves' you failed to monitor a 12 car train in 2 point something seconds through a grainy monitor while trying to simultaneously monitor the track ahead. And all to provide some wanker shareholders with an extra tuppence per share dividend. Seriously shitty point of view. IMHO, like. Word with yourself?

I'm not having a pop at DD or sticking up for Southern, I'm just calling out some obvious bullshit. If drivers had a solid case against DOO then they wouldn't need to exaggerate so much, surely

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I'm not having a pop at DD or sticking up for Southern, I'm just calling out some obvious bullshit. If drivers had a solid case against DOO then they wouldn't need to exaggerate so much, surely

And it's your call as to how much exaggeration is involved?

 

[Deadly Danson]

I'm not having a pop at DD or sticking up for Southern, I'm just calling out some obvious bullshit. If drivers had a solid case against DOO then they wouldn't need to exaggerate so much, surely

It really really isn't obvious bullshit. The camera images I have faced just today are much worse than those and the potential for a serious incident is absolutely there. It only takes one idiot to force open the doors and other passengers will follow like sheep. There is this perception by a few on here that it's all a bit of a laugh for us and we love nothing more than shoveling hundreds of pounds of our wages down the drain whilst we strike and we love disrupting the public and it's all some maniacal plan by the unions to flex their muscles. It really isn't. I hate that Southern and the government have forced us to do this. And no one is listening - as of next week DOO will extend all the way from Horsham to Bognor and from Brighton to Littlehampton. This is madness - all the stations on these routes have failed their camera tests for lighting /sighting etc but the changes are being bulldozed through regardless. The cameras on the trains on these routes are hopeless - all old trains. 3 out of 4 of my trains (that had cameras) would have been cancelled on my last shift due to the images not being good enough to go DOO but today (fortunately for the customers) I had a guard. I am terrified that I'm going to miss something so I will be making absolutely 100% sure that I can see everything before I move anywhere - if that means delaying the train further then so be it - it won't be to make a point, it will be to save myself from a manslaughter charge if the worst happens.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Not really a problem though as the thousands of On Board Supervisors Southern have hired will check for them. A FACT, FACT that strike supporters neglect to factor in to their already piss weak defense.

That may be the biggest joke of all - I've lost count of the amount of the following announcements I've had to make recently: "If there is an onboard supervisor on board please could they contact the driver". What a surprise no one answers - it's almost as though they were lying when they said there will always be a second member of staff onboard except in exceptional circumstances. Who'd have thought that would happen?

 

[The Clamp]

They would. And they have done. Stop a train just outside a station for an unreasonable amount of time with no information and people will do exactly that.[/QUOTE

Cameras in the driver's cab linked to a central control, ability to make announcements from same centre.

"Southern are sorry to announce the driver is dead. Please don't get hit by a train as you leave"

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Does this all not just highligt the incompetence of thea management in the unions and southern? How long has their been a dispute over this for...months and months. If they were half decent at their jobs they would have sat down at the first sign of trouble and come to a conclusion. But no, both sides are incapable. If I was a southern worker I woild be extreemly angry with the union and southern.

When have the union shown they're incompetent? Southern on the other hand....

 

[portslade seagull]

Oh well booked parking at Sainsburys for the QPR match

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

They can not reach a solution despite the situation having been known for months. No release of safety data to show the safety concerns. It is damming for both.

I disagree. There's only one side showing incompetence on a daily/hourly basis and it isn't the union.

 

[Beach Hut]

Why was every train late today on Southern Railway advised as due to indusrial action ?

 

[pb21]

Why don't southern just back down? The drivers will be happy, the conductors will be happy and the users will be happy/happier.

Whether or not DOO is safe, surely having the additional trained member of staff on board is safer.

Any additional cost over DOO will be minimal. It seems like it makes sense, small cost better service.

Why are southern so insistent on this happening?

 

[Weatherman]

Why don't southern just back down? The drivers will be happy, the conductors will be happy and the users will be happy/happier.

Whether or not DOO is safe, surely having the additional trained member of staff on board is safer.

Any additional cost over DOO will be minimal. It seems like it makes sense, small cost better service.

Why are southern so insistent on this happening?

Because it's the DFT who are pulling the strings and making the decisions. The Go Ahead group are being paidt to take the flack.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That is highly speculative as none of us know what happens in the meetings. If southern are simply refusing to find a solution why have the union representatives at the meetings released the recording or transcript of the meeting to prove it?
If the meetings where held publicly I bet a solution is reached extremely quickly.

Southern have shown total and utter incompetence in every minute in every area of their running of their franchise. It's visible to each and every person who comes into contact of the company. I struggle to believe they just happen to be good at dealing with staff and union negotiations.

 

[Deadly Danson]

I think it's pretty simple. The Dft want to get rid of guards nationwide. The way you do this is to create a new franchise where you can a) change their role away from safety critical work including operation of doors and b) ensure there is no guarantee they have to be on any train. As the role gradually changes and staff move on, the role becomes almost redundant and certainly less well paid and DOO becomes the norm. Then every new franchise contract nationwide can stipulate that the operator has to run DOO and they can use GTR as proof that it can work. In the process if you can nullify any union threat and create ever more restrictive anti-union laws then that's a bonus.
However ridiculous GTR are, I have no doubt that if the Dft/government had allowed them to do a deal to guarantee the second member of staff is always onboard and is fully safety critically trained then they would have been glad to do so - none of this is helping their brand. Certainly the DfT blocked such a deal back in September.
I don't believe any of that is in doubt whatever political persuasion you are.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think it's pretty simple. The Dft want to get rid of guards nationwide. The way you do this is to create a new franchise where you can a) change their role away from safety critical work including operation of doors and b) ensure there is no guarantee they have to be on any train. As the role gradually changes and staff move on, the role becomes almost redundant and certainly less well paid and DOO becomes the norm. Then every new franchise contract nationwide can stipulate that the operator has to run DOO and they can use GTR as proof that it can work. In the process if you can nullify any union threat and create ever more restrictive anti-union laws then that's a bonus.
However ridiculous GTR are, I have no doubt that if the Dft/government had allowed them to do a deal to guarantee the second member of staff is always onboard and is fully safety critically trained then they would have been glad to do so - none of this is helping their brand. Certainly the DfT blocked such a deal back in September.
I don't believe any of that is in doubt whatever political persuasion you are.

i have two doubts (while not disagreeing the general objective). firstly, GTR isnt a testbed for DOO, its already out there so theres no reason to make GTR some sort of sacrificial franchise as the precedents and example of its use are already there. secondly, this claim about DfT block, i dont find anything about it. i find information about an earlier such interference back last spring, but not not more recent - please point me to the reports i may have missed. the offer in the autumn of guaranteed-second-person-except-exceptions was rejected by the union. just before they advised their members to accept the new contracts being imposed and lost their option to negotiate or hold the company to account on those exception (because the public wouldnt follow or know when breaches occured). imo, "they" could achieve their objective more simply and more directly.