Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Yoda]

Loads. Sometimes not their own fault due to a **** up somewhere else. Eg signal failure in Worthing means guard cant get to London etc.

Which is why the **** wits need to rota driver & guard/obs together for the whole shift. Yet they don't have the brain capacity to work that one out.

 

[jmsc]

Which is why the **** wits need to rota driver & guard/obs together for the whole shift. Yet they don't have the brain capacity to work that one out.

Sounds good in principle but it's never going to happen. Drivers have a few duties that don't involve a second person (train preparation, shed and platform shunting etc.)
Do you honestly think GTR are going to pay for the second person to sit around doing nothing whilst the driver does his duties? It also has to be noted that drivers hours
are set by the dft, these conditions don't apply to OBS.

 

[albionite]

Worth a watch

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0BOYxdYA6DY&feature=youtu.be

 

[beorhthelm]

RAIL UNION RMT says that a new emergency notice issued by GTR shows failing Driver Only equipment is causing confusion and delays to services as bosses seek to force through Driver Only Operation (DOO) at any cost.

A new notice issued to train drivers by GTR shows that passengers will have their journeys delayed and cancelled because of failing equipment on DOO on trains.

The notice tells drivers what to do in the event of DOO equipment being “degraded” including in cab train dispatch monitors not working. The instructions demand that the driver secure the train, exit the cab and check the platform is clear before then returning to the train to close the doors. Once the doors are closed drivers then return to the platform for a final check before returning to the driving cab and proceeding.

In the event that there are more than eight carriages, or the whole train is not visible to the driver, the new instruction also demands that drivers walk down the length of the train on the platform closing doors as they go before returning to the front of the train.

MPs have tabled questions in parliament (see below) demanding to know how many delays or cancellations have been caused by faulty rolling stock.

Mick Cash, RMT General Secretary, said:

“These instructions are the latest example of the chaotic roll out of Driver Only Operation but also are yet another blow to the credibility of GTR’s argument they are introducing DOO to reduce delays.

“The company needs to stop digging themselves further into a hole in their bid to force through Driver Only Operation across their operations.The fact is if there was a conductor on these services there would be no need to for the driver to have to get off the train.”

serious question here, why would procedure for a driver require more steps than taken for guards? they dont have to walk the length of the train when more than 8 cars long, and i often see them in front/rear four cars of 12 car trains so its not a given they can see less than 8 cars.
second question, just how much delay would be caused by the procedure to exit cab to check platform, return to close doors, final check, when its the same as guards currently perform, other then the secure train bit? 10-15 sec more?

not so serious question, do RMT copy writers get paid by the carriage return? i think there's a pun in there.

 

[jmsc]

serious question here, why would procedure for a driver require more steps than taken for guards? they dont have to walk the length of the train when more than 8 cars long, and i often see them in front/rear four cars of 12 car trains so its not a given they can see less than 8 cars.
second question, just how much delay would be caused by the procedure to exit cab to check platform, return to close doors, final check, when its the same as guards currently perform, other then the secure train bit? 10-15 sec more? .

10-15 seconds? Try several minutes! the rule book requires the driver to secure the train and close down the cab before leaving the train.
Imagine if he/she didn't and is dealing with a fault at the back of a 12 car train and some muppet jumps in the front cab and drives off?

It then takes several minutes to reopen the cab controls - imagine this at every station............

 

[Weatherman]

There will be a second staff member on the train! Southern have said this....Next....

Informed by someone who works at Southern.
OBS staff, per company instructions, have been told they must not do train dispatch duties on booked DOO services. However, many of the OBS staff will be agency and not trained to do it anyway.

 

[beorhthelm]

10-15 seconds? Try several minutes! the rule book requires the driver to secure the train and close down the cab before leaving the train.
Imagine if he/she didn't and is dealing with a fault at the back of a 12 car train and some muppet jumps in the front cab and drives off?

It then takes several minutes to reopen the cab controls - imagine this at every station............

fair enough, its good to get clarity on this matters. still curious why the procedure for drivers is more onerous than that which guards perform.

 

[Ernest]

fair enough, its good to get clarity on this matters. still curious why the procedure for drivers is more onerous than that which guards perform.

He has explained that fully, if a driver leaves his cab to check doors he has to shut down and secure it first. A guard can just walk up and down and dispatch wherever he has the clearest view, on a normal stop you're allowed 30 seconds dwell time, which a guard can do if everything is ok, impossible for a driver to do which is why it is easier to turf everyone off and cancel the train

 

[albionite]

He has explained that fully, if a driver leaves his cab to check doors he has to shut down and secure it first. A guard can just walk up and down and dispatch wherever he has the clearest view, on a normal stop you're allowed 30 seconds dwell time, which a guard can do if everything is ok, impossible for a driver to do which is why it is easier to turf everyone off and cancel the train

I'm afraid that is what they are doing now then announcing train is cancelled due to staff shortages. All a big joke.

 

[Boys 9d]

Will GTR services improve if they are responsible for track maintenance?

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ke-over-rail-maintenance-work-of-network-rail

 

[beorhthelm]

He has explained that fully, if a driver leaves his cab to check doors he has to shut down and secure it first. A guard can just walk up and down and dispatch wherever he has the clearest view, on a normal stop you're allowed 30 seconds dwell time, which a guard can do if everything is ok, impossible for a driver to do which is why it is easier to turf everyone off and cancel the train

i got the point about the time. you've missed the point about the procedure itself, the guard currently does a procdure to check, close doors, final check. there's no difference for 8 or 12 cars. further the procedure for a driver is to walk the length and close each door individually, something the guard certainly doesnt do on longer trains. or are you saying they are supposed to do this currently, just dont?

 

[Ernest]

i got the point about the time. you've missed the point about the procedure itself, the guard currently does a procdure to check, close doors, final check. there's no difference for 8 or 12 cars. further the procedure for a driver is to walk the length and close each door individually, something the guard certainly doesnt do on longer trains. or are you saying they are supposed to do this currently, just dont?

You always seem to be unable to understand a clear answer, next time you catch a train watch the guard and see how he dispatches a train and work out how a driver can't

 

[beorhthelm]

Will GTR services improve if they are responsible for track maintenance?

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ke-over-rail-maintenance-work-of-network-rail

and this is an utterly stupid idea, i cant believe they are seriously considering. the seperations and conflict of priority will still exist within the operator, and anyone working in IT will tell you the revenue generating side always wins. so engineering will postponed and delyed until we have another Hatfield.

 

[Ernest]

and this is an utterly stupid idea, i cant believe they are seriously considering. the seperations and conflict of priority will still exist within the operator, and anyone working in IT will tell you the revenue generating side always wins. so engineering will postponed and delyed until we have another Hatfield.

Which is why it was moved on from Railtrack in the first place

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

You always seem to be unable to understand a clear answer, next time you catch a train watch the guard and see how he dispatches a train and work out how a driver can't

Trouble is, everybody who takes a train round these parts has taken it (until now) so much for granted that they think it's like hopping on and off a bus, like there's no planning or structure behind the thing, and there's not a twelve carriage piece of hurtling metal involved. Same people would probably be quite happy to fly Ryanair with no cabin crew and just a pilot, just so long as they got to their destination sort of on time, most of the time. and they've never personally previously encountered any kind of adverse occurrence on their flight. Must be OK then. Sake!

 

[Ernest]

Trouble is, everybody who takes a train round these parts has taken it (until now) so much for granted that they think it's like hopping on and off a bus, like there's no planning or structure behind the thing, and there's not a twelve carriage piece of hurtling metal involved. Same people would probably be quite happy to fly Ryanair with no cabin crew and just a pilot, just so long as they got to their destination sort of on time, most of the time. and they'd never personally previously encountered any kind of adverse occurrence on their flight. Must be OK then. Sake!

At least Ryanair have cheap fares, SASTA are just putting them up again whilst getting rid of loads more staff

 

[beorhthelm]

You always seem to be unable to understand a clear answer, next time you catch a train watch the guard and see how he dispatches a train and work out how a driver can't

you seem unable to seperate the two questions, the procedure being difficult for driver is accepted. the second point comes from this part of the RMT PR:

In the event that there are more than eight carriages, or the whole train is not visible to the driver, the new instruction also demands that drivers walk down the length of the train on the platform closing doors

guards often stay in the first/last 4 coaches of 12 car trains (so beyond the 8 car extent of the driver rule) and dont walk the length of the train shutting doors individually. so either the procedure is being made more onerous for drivers, or guards dont follow procdure for some reason.

actually as i think about it more, only when the cameras have a fault and how many servies would this affect anyway, since most 12 car trains only stop at manned stations dont they?

 

[albionite]

you seem unable to seperate the two questions, the procedure being difficult for driver is accepted. the second point comes from this part of the RMT PR:

guards often stay in the first/last 4 coaches of 12 car trains (so beyond the 8 car extent of the driver rule) and dont walk the length of the train shutting doors individually. so either the procedure is being made more onerous for drivers, or guards dont follow procdure for some reason.

actually as i think about it more, only when the cameras have a fault and how many servies would this affect anyway, since most 12 car trains only stop at manned stations dont they?

If only that was true. Go back to thinking about it some more.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Been following this with interest. I'm still siding with the guards.

 

[Beach Hut]

Will GTR services improve if they are responsible for track maintenance?

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ke-over-rail-maintenance-work-of-network-rail

South West Trains tried that and it made no difference at all