Southern Rail STRIKE details

[beorhthelm]

Bearing in mind official strike action has 97% support (on a 73% turnout) among the members, what value is there in having a less than 8% unofficial industrial action on non-strike days?

i'd have thought obvious reason is unofficial, work to rule, action has a significant impact on everyday operations. with the bonus of not losing a days pay.

 

[The Large One]

Yeah ok,

Your right everyone else is wrong...

On and on this thing goes.... still who cares about the public at least your "right" because a thing that can not be proved can't be proved.

This exchange is going nowhere like the service we receive..

Unofficial strike action CAN be proved - by looking at the numbers of people off work, by infiltration, by conversation, by any means the company has at its disposal to show the attitudes of the staff, some of whom don't support the strike.

Yet you've decided it can't be, so therefore it's you who's right and everyone else who's wrong...?

 

[pearl]

SASTA are now saying there will be service disruption EVERY DAY from the 6th December, whether there is a strike or not. This is an admission that they have insufficient staff and those they do have are entirely demotivated. Recruitment must be impossible. Not that they care as the Government is underwriting their financials.

Whoever you think is to blame for this unholy mess, are we in agreement that it can't continue like this?

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there has been service disruption every day since April (at least) (strike or not). The temporary timetable was supposed to 'help plan your journey and give reliability blah blah blah ...' It didn't, trains were randomly cancelled. Sometimes on the East coast line if a train is running late someone randomly decides not to stop at 'little' stations like Falmer / Moulsecoomb / London Road. This week has been sh*t getting home so I can only expect worse next week. It shouldn't continue, but it does.

 

[Insel affe]

Unofficial strike action CAN be proved - by looking at the numbers of people off work, by infiltration, by conversation, by any means the company has at its disposal to show the attitudes of the staff, some of whom don't support the strike.

Yet you've decided it can't be, so therefore it's you who's right and everyone else who's wrong...?

Unofficial strike action can NOT be proved when people phone in sick instead... Fact

I can be wrong, have been wrong in the past and will be in the future, you have just turned the argument again by missing out the all important sick days being used convenient that.

Are you a union member in this dispute ?

 

[The Large One]

Unofficial strike action can NOT be proved when people phone in sick instead... Fact

I can be wrong, have been wrong in the past and will be in the future, you have just turned the argument again by missing out the all important sick days being used convenient that.

Like everyone else, if they have a day off sick, they have to produce a certificate to show illness. Some claim that the RMT have some tame doctors prepared to see this facilitated. But they'd have to have the entire NHS in its pocket to ensure each doctor would do as he/she is asked. Would anyone not see straight through a Brighton GP signing off an Eastbourne-residing member of staff...?

Are you a union member in this dispute ?

I am a member of a trade union. But not one of the transport ones, and not in dispute with Southern. What's that got to do with it?

 

[Ernest]

Unofficial strike action can NOT be proved when people phone in sick instead... Fact

I can be wrong, have been wrong in the past and will be in the future, you have just turned the argument again by missing out the all important sick days being used convenient that.

Are you a union member in this dispute ?

You've been proved wrong , what does that make you ?

 

[Insel affe]

I am a member of a trade union. But not one of the transport ones, and not in dispute with Southern. What's that got to do with it?

Band of Brothers eh.

 

[Insel affe]

You've been proved wrong , what does that make you ?

Is this a union funded site now ?

No I have not been proved wrong.

You or the large one have proved nothing either.

Neither have I for that matter.

 

[Ernest]

Is this a union funded site now ?

No I have not been proved wrong.

You or the large one have proved nothing either.

Neither have I for that matter.

You can't prove what you've said, so that's that

 

[Arthur]

Like everyone else, if they have a day off sick, they have to produce a certificate to show illness.

That's not like everyone else though is it? I wouldn't have to provide a certificate unless I was off for more than 7 days as per the law. Don't see why the railways would be any different.

 

[The Large One]

Band of Brothers eh.

Sorry. What does that post actually mean?

I acknowledge that the RMT could have played their cards much more intelligently and wisely in this dispute, and Mick Cash comes across as - at best - unconvincing in public (what he's like in private or in negotiations, I've no idea). However, what I won't automatically swallow is anything Southern / GTR say about their staff. They've already encouraged the public to abuse and insult them; they've blamed them for many things (including the Aston Villa fiasco), and they've constantly buggered up the service to the point that chaos is the norm, and blamed the staff even on non-strike days.

There are people campaigning on behalf of the commuters taking out a judicial review on the government's role (I've been invited onto their Strategy Group) There are staff on the ABC Facebook page who are happy to make statements about what is happening on the ground. Oddly, they don't get a voice in the media (they're not allowed to publicly comment).

So if they make a claim about... anything (organised staff sickness in this instance), I double check the information. Here, there is no evidence of the RMT organising unofficial industrial action through fraudulent sickness. Of course, if Southern can back up that claim, I'll look into it, with the ABC, and check its worth (as the Albion have found out, Southern are fundamentally unreliable in anything they say). If there is merit in that given claim - I'll blast the RMT's bollocks off the same as anyone else (though it would be odd - bordering on questionable to only provide information they would hold seven months later, rather than there and then). But until then...

 

[Insel affe]

You can't prove what you've said, so that's that

No one can prove if someone is throwing a sick day, its impossible.

Does that make you right, or superior to me.... No it does not.

I try to like you and respect your opinions, however they remind of the dark militant days when no one is allowed an alternative thought or opinion.

The unions are contributing to this disgusting service and all you want to do is absolve their part in this, blaming everything and everyone else without acknowledging your part in the misery.

 

[Ernest]

No one can prove if someone is throwing a sick day, its impossible.

.

You can if that sick day didn't happen

 

[Insel affe]

You can if that sick day didn't happen

Ok

Ignore the bit about contributing to the paying public's misery and the unions part in that...

I guess it would be too much to acknowledge that and hold your hands up that the public are just collateral damage in the dispute.

I am done arguing with you, its a waste of energy no doubt you will claim a victory.

I will think of you when I am tucking the little one to bed and she asks me where is mummy tonight daddy "she is late because......"

It's not Ernest fault.

Good night.

 

[The Large One]

No one can prove if someone is throwing a sick day, its impossible.

So there's two considerations at work here.

One - individuals are calling in sick for whatever reason (they are sick; they are feeling stress / anxiety; they are workshy)

Two - the RMT is organising that their members falsely call in sick on non-strike days

In which case, bearing in mind - as you say - neither can be proved, how can Southern make the claim that these sick days are part of unofficial industrial action?

 

[Gazwag]

So I'll put you down as someone with a 100% record for never 'throwing a sickie' - as opposed to being genuinely sick. Cool.

Well I know for a fact I have come to work plenty of times when I could have taken a day off sick as if I have stayed at home I would have let a client (customer) down

 

[wellquickwoody]

Like everyone else, if they have a day off sick, they have to produce a certificate to show illness. Some claim that the RMT have some tame doctors prepared to see this facilitated. But they'd have to have the entire NHS in its pocket to ensure each doctor would do as he/she is asked. Would anyone not see straight through a Brighton GP signing off an Eastbourne-residing member of staff...?



I am a member of a trade union. But not one of the transport ones, and not in dispute with Southern. What's that got to do with it?

As we all know, some GP's are all too easily prepared to sign people off work when not truly required, makes their own life easier compared to having an argument with the 'patient'. And when the GP knows that this is required by the employer then they would then also be hurting their patient financially if they were to refuse.. All too easy to get a sick note, surprised the RMT don't have a corporate one!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

As we all know, some GP's are all too easily prepared to sign people off work when not truly required, makes their own life easier compared to having an argument with the 'patient'. And when the GP knows that this is required by the employer then they would then also be hurting their patient financially if they were to refuse.. All too easy to get a sick note, surprised the RMT don't have a corporate one!

You don't get a sick note for odd days. You have to be off work for 7 days before you can use a sick note and most doctors will use 7 day blocks when signing.

 

[mr sheen]

I have some friends who work at the Toyota factory near Derby. Phone in sick there and they send a taxi round and bring you to their in-house doctor and medical centre. You then spend the day there before being returned home. Low sickness rates apparently.

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[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I have some friends who work at the Toyota factory near Derby. Phone in sick there and they send a taxi round and bring you to their in-house doctor and medical centre. You then spend the day there before being returned home. Low sickness rates apparently.

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Not uncommon. Its built into most employment contracts up here that the company has the right to get an independent medical exam if your sickness reaches unacceptable levels. Especially "attritional" sick as opposed to long term. Even then there was still that option.

Another way is make sure you make it completely at management discretion. Therefore if someone is taking the piss then you withold sick pay and then you have to claim it back from the government.

Funnily enough sickness goes down. Cant think why.

I am merely reporting what happens in my industry generally and I know its not the same for everyone, just how it can be dealt with.