Southern Rail STRIKE details

[Bozza]

To re-iterate, the RMT is prepared to accept DOO on London-Brighton services.

It's the East Coast (Brighton to Eastbourne / Hastings) and West Coast (Brighton to Worthing / Chichester / Portsmouth) services which the RMT is most concerned about. SASTA intends to put DOO in across the entire network (aside from the London-Uckfield line, we're told), even though the stations along those lines don't have the neessary technology to safely allow the driver to make the call as to when to close the doors. Nor do SASTA (who run those stations) have any intention on putting that technology in.

Unless, of course, the drivers do what the TOCs own safety reports suggests - leave the cab, and check down the platforms themselves.

It's a separate issue, but dwell times on the stations will increase (even 1 min per station has a knock-on effect), leading to further delays and cancellations back down the line.

I'm curious - when were the RMT appointed the final arbiter on passenger safety?

I would have expected it to be someone like, oh I don't know, the Rail Safety and Standards Board?

 

[bhanutz]

I'm curious - when were the RMT appointed the final arbiter on passenger safety?

I would have expected it to be someone like, I don't know, the Rail Safety and Standards Board?

The RMT are trying to justify their existence. We all know that!

 

[Bozza]

No evidence of increased risk of passenger harm from DOO, RSSB research finds

11 August 2016

​For over thirty years, thousands of trains have run each day in Britain with only the driver operating the doors. Most commuter trains out of Liverpool Street, King's Cross, St Pancras, and suburban services from Victoria, Charing Cross, Cannon Street and London Bridge operate this way.

​In the main, trains are dispatched from stations by one person which can either be the driver, guard or a member of platform dispatch staff. The removal of any possible miscommunication, which could exist between driver and guard could, potentially, deliver some safety benefits.

Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB), an independent body, that analyses safety data and provides standards and risk guidance to the GB rail industry has found no evidence to suggest that there is an increased risk of harm to passengers where drivers operate powered doors providing the correct procedures have been followed. In fact, no one has died as a result of being caught in train doors for over 15 years.

This reflects an overall downward trend in the levels of passenger harm recorded on the railway. Taking into account the rapid rise in the number of journeys taken across the network, the rate of harm for passengers has fallen by approximately one-quarter over the last decade. RSSB's analysis shows that Britain's railways are one of the safest in Europe and also by far the safest form of land transport in this country. Taking the train is statistically 22 times safer than travelling by car and over 1,200 times safer than by motorcycle.

Source: http://www.rssb.co.uk/industry-news...f-passenger-harm-from-doo-rssb-research-finds

 

[bhanutz]

No evidence of increased risk of passenger harm from DOO, RSSB research finds

11 August 2016

​For over thirty years, thousands of trains have run each day in Britain with only the driver operating the doors. Most commuter trains out of Liverpool Street, King's Cross, St Pancras, and suburban services from Victoria, Charing Cross, Cannon Street and London Bridge operate this way.

​In the main, trains are dispatched from stations by one person which can either be the driver, guard or a member of platform dispatch staff. The removal of any possible miscommunication, which could exist between driver and guard could, potentially, deliver some safety benefits.

Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB), an independent body, that analyses safety data and provides standards and risk guidance to the GB rail industry has found no evidence to suggest that there is an increased risk of harm to passengers where drivers operate powered doors providing the correct procedures have been followed. In fact, no one has died as a result of being caught in train doors for over 15 years.

This reflects an overall downward trend in the levels of passenger harm recorded on the railway. Taking into account the rapid rise in the number of journeys taken across the network, the rate of harm for passengers has fallen by approximately one-quarter over the last decade. RSSB's analysis shows that Britain's railways are one of the safest in Europe and also by far the safest form of land transport in this country. Taking the train is statistically 22 times safer than travelling by car and over 1,200 times safer than by motorcycle.

Source: http://www.rssb.co.uk/industry-news...f-passenger-harm-from-doo-rssb-research-finds

This! Thread closed....

 

[The Albion Roar]

I'm curious - when were the RMT appointed the final arbiter on passenger safety?

I would have expected it to be someone like, oh I don't know, the Rail Safety and Standards Board?

They're not.

The RSSB is the TOC-owned (so not independent) safety board to which the RMT has referred when talking about passenger safety. Unsurprisingly, the TOCs haven't publicly mentioned the RSSB's findings - about the possibility of some drivers leaving their cabs to check down certain platforms. The RMT have.

The industry doesn't have an independent safety body.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This will be day nine of commuting by train on the trot, doesn't happen often. It will also be day nine of the ticket machine not working at my station, and probably day nine of not seeing a guard to pay my fare to. Thanks Southern.

Must be a fantastic feeling to know that you'll soon be in Oz and safely out of the clutches of that thoroughly wretched rail company. Can't come soon enough eh?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Government needs to be held firmly to account for standing by and allowing (encouraging!) this sheer economic VANDALISM to be inflicted on an entire region. Utter dereliction of duty. Needs to be remembered come next polling day.

 

[dazzer6666]

This! Thread closed....

Hardly - thread has years left in it.....

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

IMHO it needs the drivers of both Southern AND THAMESLINK to come out in full solidarity with the guards and shut down the entire network for one single working week. It wouldn't even need a a second working week, the government would HAVE to step in and force GTR to back down. Currently the strikes get far too watered-down by the Southern drivers continuing to work, and Thameslink train crews carrying on as if the Southern dispute is nothing to do with them. Five working days of solidarity by the drivers of both Southern and Thameslink would bring matters to a head once and for all.

 

[beorhthelm]

To re-iterate, the RMT is prepared to accept DOO on London-Brighton services.

where is this info from? they arent mentioning in on their website.

as i understand the equipment for DOO is on the trains themselves, so why would any stations need tech put in? is this for secondary systems for adverse circumstances? in my view if DOO does need additional equipment then it cant be implemented until its installed, the RMT should highlight this deficiency and make that a condition of acceptance.

 

[beorhthelm]

Government needs to be held firmly to account for standing by and allowing (encouraging!) this sheer economic VANDALISM to be inflicted on an entire region. Utter dereliction of duty. Needs to be remembered come next polling day.

IMHO it needs the drivers of both Southern AND THAMESLINK to come out in full solidarity with the guards and shut down the entire network for one single working week. It wouldn't even need a a second working week, the government would HAVE to step in and force GTR to back down. Currently the strikes get far too watered-down by the Southern drivers continuing to work, and Thameslink train crews carrying on as if the Southern dispute is nothing to do with them. Five working days of solidarity by the drivers of both Southern and Thameslink would bring matters to a head once and for all.

do you really hold both these views? the strikes are economic vandalism, so the answer is a week long wider strike, deliberatly to create much larger economic impact? it may work for this dispute, though i fancy there'd be strong anti-strike legislation as a consequence.

 

[Worthingite]

I've just read the last three pages and genuinely just want to cry to be honest. I commute to Hove from Worthing every day, usually by bus,or my other half drives. The roads are at capacity as it is, with Southwick/Shoreham through to Brooklands effectively turning into a car park at rush hour, with the A27 no better, especially given Poulters Lane and long furlong being shut.

I finished early today. Got out just before 4. I got home (a distance of 14 miles) at 6:30pm. That's getting the bus. The strikes are making overcrowded roads even worse. I either am going to have to move closer (which is money we can't afford really), or jack in the job and find something closer to home (which would be the 3rd job in this year if I did). Regardless, between SASTA and West Sussex County Council, they have transpired to make what should be a half hour journey a miserable soul destroying slog.

 

[Norman Baker suck my lozenge]

The rmt & their members are pure scum. Stuck in the past socialist fools who are against progress.

Sack them all & ban the union

That's the spirit,and they can all go and work for sports direct,that'll learn em,see how they like it when female members of staff give birth in a stock cupboard ,I think it's a DISGRACE that people are prepared to stand up for themselves in the work place,sack the lot of em.
MILITANT SCUM.

 

[jaghebby]

They're not.

The RSSB is the TOC-owned (so not independent) safety board to which the RMT has referred when talking about passenger safety. Unsurprisingly, the TOCs haven't publicly mentioned the RSSB's findings - about the possibility of some drivers leaving their cabs to check down certain platforms. The RMT have.

The industry doesn't have an independent safety body.

What about the Office of Rail and Road?

I quote from their website:-

"As an independent regulator, ORR operates within the framework set by UK and EU legislation and is accountable through Parliament and the courts. We are an independent statutory body, with powers vested by Parliament in our board. All members of the board are appointed by the Secretary of State for Transport, for a fixed term of up to five years.

ORR is a non-ministerial government department with around 280 staff and a budget of about £30m each year. We are funded by the rail industry for our Rail Regulation role and our Highways function is funded by the Department for Transport. Our staff work from six offices across Britain, giving us the flexibility and coverage we need to perform our functions efficiently. Many of our people work away from the office, for example by conducting on-site inspections across the rail network."



Ian Prosser, ORR Director of Railway Safety and HM Chief Inspector of Railways, said:

"Trains with doors operated by drivers (known in the industry as 'Driver Only Operation') have been in operation in Great Britain for more than 30 years. ORR has scrutinised this approach, and our inspectors are satisfied that with suitable equipment, proper procedures and competent staff in place, it is a safe method of working.

"Great Britain's railways have a good safety record, and are now statistically the safest in Europe. Of course, we cannot be complacent, record numbers of passengers getting on and off trains means station and platform safety is a top priority."
!
So how come the RMT are now claim to be the arbitrators of safety and not the Rail regulator? They must have some ulterior motive - O I know protecting jobs and hoping that GTR is stripped of its contract so that the lot might be re-nationalised maybe?

 

[studio150]

Conductors are to take strike action by not booking on for any shifts between:

• 00.01 on Tuesday 11th October and 23.59 on Thursday 13th October

• 00.01 on Tuesday 18th October and 23.59 on Thursday 20st October

• 00.01 on Thursday 3rd November and 23.59 on Saturday 5th November

• 00.01 on Tuesday 22nd November and 23.59 on Wednesday 23rd November

• 00.01 on Tuesday 6th December and 23.59 on Thursday 8th December.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said in a statement: "Yet again our members are being forced to take industrial action in a bid to maintain a safe and secure service on Southern.



Should be fun for those not attending the Bristol City away game, but instead looking to go to Lewes for the firework celebrations, and also the Wolves home game

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

do you really hold both these views? the strikes are economic vandalism, so the answer is a week long wider strike, deliberatly to create much larger economic impact? it may work for this dispute, though i fancy there'd be strong anti-strike legislation as a consequence.

It's not the strikes that are economic vandalism, it's the actions of this wretched failing rail franchise. It's thoroughly unreliable threadbare service has had a massive impact on the coast's summer season in the year we've finally had a glorious summer ,as well as forcing large numbers of the local population on to replacement buses on a daily basis. People are in fear of losing their jobs, or have already lost them, because SASTA can't be trusted to run a basic service to get them to work on time. Impact on family and social life of people in the region has been massive. I'd be highly surprised if there weren't major mental health implications as well,particularly for those already having trouble coping with the pressures of their job. I have every sympathy with the strikers and reject SASTA's attempts to make them into bogey-men to cover the franchise's terminal failings.

 

[Seagull73]

It's not the strikes that are economic vandalism, it's the actions of this wretched failing rail franchise. It's thoroughly unreliable threadbare service has had a massive impact on the coast's summer season in the year we've finally had a glorious summer ,as well as forcing large numbers of the local population on to replacement buses on a daily basis. People are in fear of losing their jobs, or have already lost them, because SASTA can't be trusted to run a basic service to get them to work on time. Impact on family and social life of people in the region has been massive. I'd be highly surprised if there weren't major mental health implications as well,particularly for those already having trouble coping with the pressures of their job. I have every sympathy with the strikers and reject SASTA's attempts to make them into bogey-men to cover the franchise's terminal failings.

And so you think the answer is to heap more misery on those commuters / passengers by entirely shutting the network in the name of repairing this so-called economic vandalism?

Brilliant...!!

Some people would happily have this country dragged kicking and screaming back to the 70's.

 

[beorhthelm]

It's not the strikes that are economic vandalism, it's the actions of this wretched failing rail franchise. It's thoroughly unreliable threadbare service has had a massive impact on the coast's summer season in the year we've finally had a glorious summer ,as well as forcing large numbers of the local population on to replacement buses on a daily basis. People are in fear of losing their jobs, or have already lost them, because SASTA can't be trusted to run a basic service to get them to work on time. Impact on family and social life of people in the region has been massive. I'd be highly surprised if there weren't major mental health implications as well,particularly for those already having trouble coping with the pressures of their job.

yes to all that, and your solution was have a longer, wider strike? so more economic vandalism, a week of no services would have more substantial impact for people and business. we can blame Southern all day for their failings, we can also blame the union for making matters worse for the passengers.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

yes to all that, and your solution was have a longer, wider strike? so more economic vandalism, a week of no services would have more substantial impact for people and business. we can blame Southern all day for their failings, we can also blame the union for making matters worse for the passengers.

Situation needs bringing to a head somehow, and if that means a total shutdown of the regional rail network for a short period - and it would only need to be short - then so be it. Government appears quite prepared to let this wretched failing franchise wreak havoc on the area's economy indefinitely, so that they can do away with the safety-critical role of guard for no other reason than to further line their shareholders pockets.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I've just heard someone on LBC say that the Government pays Southern to operate the franchise i.e. the company does not receive the revenue. It is not a process used with the other rail franchises and means Southern have no incentive to make their customers happy. Maybe it's been discussed on here but passed me by completely. The decision to organize the franchise in that manner should, in my opinion, be investigated as it is not in the interests of rail users or the rail industry.