Southern Rail STRIKE details

[pearl]

And in the old days you needed two men to drive a train: one to operate the controls and the other to put the coal on the fire. #justsayin[/QUOTE]

who shut the doors? Or weren't there any

does anyone know what's happening with train dispute? Isn't 21st the DOO day?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

who shut the doors? Or weren't there any

does anyone know what's happening with train dispute? Isn't 21st the DOO day?[/QUOTE]

Up until quite recently we shut our own doors ! In fact we opened our own doors as well..
The task of door shutting by the conducter is a modern one and not as has been argued on this thread some obsolete practice from the olden days.

 

[pearl]

I have a solution to the train dispute, get rid of the trains altogether and all the staff, run little white vans up and down the tracks driven by the zero contract self employed, no unions, end of problem, lets go f-ing mental

 

[Brovion]

Up until quite recently we shut our own doors ! In fact we opened our own doors as well..
The task of door shutting by the conducter is a modern one and not as has been argued on this thread some obsolete practice from the olden days.

Oh indeed, I'm not disputing that. Yet another example of an industry evolving and a job function that didn't exist in the 1970s (opening and closing the doors) is now of crucial importance. Back in the days of slam-door trains the guard just used to visually check that they were all shut.

EDIT: And in the old days buses used to have conductors!

 

[Gwylan]

people still (to a greater or less extent) buy printed books and newspapers

Oh,I wish this were true - paper sales are massively down on what they were. There was a survey released last week that showed that 35% of journalist jobs in the US had disappeared in the last ten years and there's no sign that the trend will be reversed

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Oh indeed, I'm not disputing that. Yet another example of an industry evolving and a job function that didn't exist in the 1970s (opening and closing the doors) is now of crucial importance. Back in the days of slam-door trains the guard just used to visually check that they were all shut.

EDIT: And in the old days buses used to have conductors!

Agreed, all jobs evolve and the RMT needs to accept that. I don't think they can possibly be arguing that it is of vital importance that the guard presses a button to open the doors. Just not credible. This dispute then boils down to their fear that taking away this role is a precursor to job cuts. Southern deny this so how about their bluff is called. Southern issues 10 year contracts to the staff it says it has no intention of making redundant. The company can't lose as it says those jobs are secure anyway. The workers have some job security. The trains can then run again with all trust issues dispelled...

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Oh,I wish this were true - paper sales are massively down on what they were. There was a survey released last week that showed that 35% of journalist jobs in the US had disappeared in the last ten years and there's no sign that the trend will be reversed

I think though that the point being made is that industries such as newspapers do not die completely rather they lose their dominance. In this way some jobs are preserved and there are also new jobs created elsewhere. The thatching example is also a good one. There is absolutely no 21st century logical reason for this to still be a job apart from the fact that many people still love a thatched cottage despite the impracticality and expense. Suffolk is full of such people...thank goodness !

 

[beorhthelm]

Up until quite recently we shut our own doors ! In fact we opened our own doors as well..
The task of door shutting by the conducter is a modern one and not as has been argued on this thread some obsolete practice from the olden days.

there was always a guard, who would check the doors were all closed and signal to the driver ready to leave.

 

[Ernest]

Agreed, all jobs evolve and the RMT needs to accept that. I don't think they can possibly be arguing that it is of vital importance that the guard presses a button to open the doors. Just not credible. This dispute then boils down to their fear that taking away this role is a precursor to job cuts. Southern deny this so how about their bluff is called. Southern issues 10 year contracts to the staff it says it has no intention of making redundant. The company can't lose as it says those jobs are secure anyway. The workers have some job security. The trains can then run again with all trust issues dispelled...

They've already conceded the control of the doors , it is the provision of a safety competent second person on all trains that have them now , SASTA's proposals are worthless as they stand as they refuse to put any detail to them

 

[beorhthelm]

I have a solution to the train dispute, get rid of the trains altogether and all the staff, run little white vans up and down the tracks driven by the zero contract self employed, no unions, end of problem, lets go f-ing mental

you jest but the technology is already here for some form of individual carriage to run up and down the line autonomously. Google cars can negotiate around towns safely they can easily negotiate a fixed route. once we have autonomus cars on the road the entire rail network would follow or be unused.

 

[Brovion]

Oh,I wish this were true - paper sales are massively down on what they were. There was a survey released last week that showed that 35% of journalist jobs in the US had disappeared in the last ten years and there's no sign that the trend will be reversed

I accept that, that's why I said 'to a greater or lesser extent'. @Neville's Breakfast in post #2773 answers it well.

I could actually go further and argue that it's incredible that printed newspapers are still so strong and still employ so many people in the 21st century. Video stores came and went and by rights newspapers should have followed them - but humble newsprint keeps on going!

 

[Gwylan]

I think though that the point being made is that industries such as newspapers do not die completely rather they lose their dominance. In this way some jobs are preserved and there are also new jobs created elsewhere.

I could actually go further and argue that it's incredible that printed newspapers are still so strong and still employ so many people in the 21st century. Video stores came and went and by rights newspapers should have followed them - but humble newsprint keeps on going!

But for how much longer? I predict that one of the big nationals will disappear within five years and many more locals. Wonder how long the Argus has.

I'm not wholly convinced by this "new jobs will appear". Yes, they obviously will but not to the same extent.

I started my first job in 1976. At that time, about 75% of the population left school at 16 and only about 15% went to further education till 21. It was also the time that unemployment hit a million and there was a big hooh-hah about it. These days, nearly everyone stays in education till they're 18 and 42% go on to further education - that removes a chunk from the job market. Unemployment is about 1.6m but that doesn't take into account that the way it's counted has changed, it's probably double that if you use 1976 methods.

There are also more people working part time, many of whom would rather be working full-time (I've seen various figures for this, 15% was the lowest one). And if you throw in the number of people taking early retirement, you'll see we've lost a lot of jobs in 40 years. I know the population has increased too but we've not created many jobs from that increase. Yes, we've got a few mobile salespeople but how many jobs were lost at Allen West, Creed and the Alliance (to name three local employers)? They're not all working for Carphone Warehouse

Google cars can negotiate around towns safely they can easily negotiate a fixed route. once we have autonomus cars on the road the entire rail network would follow or be unused.

We're there already

https://techcrunch.com/2016/08/18/u...icking-up-passengers-this-month/?sr_share=fac

 

[Brovion]

But for how much longer? I predict that one of the big nationals will disappear within five years and many more locals. Wonder how long the Argus has.

I'm not wholly convinced by this "new jobs will appear". Yes, they obviously will but not to the same extent.

I started my first job in 1976. At that time, about 75% of the population left school at 16 and only about 15% went to further education till 21. It was also the time that unemployment hit a million and there was a big hooh-hah about it. These days, nearly everyone stays in education till they're 18 and 42% go on to further education - that removes a chunk from the job market. Unemployment is about 1.6m but that doesn't take into account that the way it's counted has changed, it's probably double that if you use 1976 methods.

There are also more people working part time, many of whom would rather be working full-time (I've seen various figures for this, 15% was the lowest one). And if you throw in the number of people taking early retirement, you'll see we've lost a lot of jobs in 40 years. I know the population has increased too but we've not created many jobs from that increase. Yes, we've got a few mobile salespeople but how many jobs were lost at Allen West, Creed and the Alliance (to name three local employers)? They're not all working for Carphone Warehouse

Well I completely disagree but there you go. I believe that new jobs are being created and working practices are changing. I, along with hundreds of thousands of other people work exclusively providing web software. Those jobs didn't exist when I left school (1975) as apart from very big corporations companies didn't have IT (or DP) departments. That's to say nothing of all the other computer-related jobs that have been created. My last firm employed 750 IT people to sell its products exclusively on-line. That's where the old clerical workers have gone, well, except for at least one old Alliance worker who went into alternative medicine! (Something else that didn't exist in 1976. He now make a living selling homeopathic remedies).

EDIT: And I didn't start of in computing, I trained as an Accountant!

 

[Official Old Man]

Rant time.
My Daughter travels regularly between Brighton, Cardiff and back. Monday she was verbally attacked by a guard somewhere around the Chichester area for being on 'the wrong train for her ticket'. He threatened to take her ticket and put her off the train at the next stop. She managed to keep her ticket but was evicted from the train and made to wait an hour for the correct train. It was 12:00 so it was not pre peak time, just the wrong train. Her explanation was that she always arrives at Brighton an hour early because the correct train is probably cancelled.
Right now she is on her way back. Changed as usual at Fratton and told there are no trains to Brighton, correct tickets or not. Sent to Havant to get a conection but guess what, no trains from Havant for 90 minutes, correct ticket or not. If I could get my hands on that first guard I'd like to throw him off the train, whilst it's still moving.
Rant over.

 

[The Wookiee]

Rant time.
My Daughter travels regularly between Brighton, Cardiff and back. Monday she was verbally attacked by a guard somewhere around the Chichester area for being on 'the wrong train for her ticket'. He threatened to take her ticket and put her off the train at the next stop. She managed to keep her ticket but was evicted from the train and made to wait an hour for the correct train. It was 12:00 so it was not pre peak time, just the wrong train. Her explanation was that she always arrives at Brighton an hour early because the correct train is probably cancelled.
Right now she is on her way back. Changed as usual at Fratton and told there are no trains to Brighton, correct tickets or not. Sent to Havant to get a conection but guess what, no trains from Havant for 90 minutes, correct ticket or not. If I could get my hands on that first guard I'd like to throw him off the train, whilst it's still moving.
Rant over.

That's disgusting !! IMO they have lost the right to do this whilst the timetable is still f@cked

 

[Official Old Man]

That's disgusting !! IMO they have lost the right to do this whilst the timetable is still f@cked

I didn't mention she was with her three year old disabled Daughter. Makes it even worse.

 

[Ernest]

I didn't mention she was with her three year old disabled Daughter. Makes it even worse.

What was the ticket she held ?

 

[yxee]

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/gtr-station-staff-vote-to-strike160816/

How can we destroy this union

 

[dazzer6666]

who shut the doors? Or weren't there any

does anyone know what's happening with train dispute? Isn't 21st the DOO day?

Up until quite recently we shut our own doors ! In fact we opened our own doors as well..
The task of door shutting by the conducter is a modern one and not as has been argued on this thread some obsolete practice from the olden days.[/QUOTE]


Who shut the doors? When I started commuting in the early 90s, the passengers did. Usually as the train was already moving (we'd occasionally even end up swinging on the door as we tried to get on), typically with a fat purple-faced bloke in an ill-fitting BR uniform shouting 'stand away' and furiously blowing his whistle.

Oh yes, was much safer back in the days of conductors on every train :-D

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Up until quite recently we shut our own doors ! In fact we opened our own doors as well..
The task of door shutting by the conducter is a modern one and not as has been argued on this thread some obsolete practice from the olden days.

Who shut the doors? When I started commuting in the early 90s, the passengers did. Usually as the train was already moving (we'd occasionally even end up swinging on the door as we tried to get on), typically with a fat purple-faced bloke in an ill-fitting BR uniform shouting 'stand away' and furiously blowing his whistle.

Oh yes, was much safer back in the days of conductors on every train :-D[/QUOTE]

Actually that was somebody else's question. When answering I somehow messed up the 'reply with quote' function. Yes I remember it well. In fact we had slam door trains on my local Surrey line (where I lived at the time) at least until the early part of this century. Electrically operated doors may be safer day to day but I think I preferred the ability in the old days to get out of a train in a crisis (or a power cut).