Southern Rail STRIKE details

[pearl]

I got on a Thameslink this morning at 5.30am (one of the hideous new trains that I'm sure Charles Horton wants to bring in - less seats, no tables, limited leg room in a window seat) and it had no guard on board. There are driver only trains in operation, so I'm wondering why the RMT didn't take action against these operators.

I've wondered this too, can only think not enough Thameslink guards were in the RMT?

 

[Deadly Danson]

I heard it. So did others. Joke or not.. Very poor AGAIN.

They really are not helping themselves are they here. Bunch of ****ing CLOWNS.

I'm sorry but that's a spurious argument. Do you take offence when people are booing the ref at a game in case it may be directed at you? You thought they were booing at a passenger, they weren't, no big deal. End of story.

 

[Frutos]

I'm sorry but that's a spurious argument. Do you take offence when people are booing the ref at a game in case it may be directed at you? You thought they were booing at a passenger, they weren't, no big deal. End of story.

Playing Devil's Advocate, we only have your (biased) word for it that they weren't...

 

[TheJasperCo]

I'm sorry but that's a spurious argument. Do you take offence when people are booing the ref at a game in case it may be directed at you? You thought they were booing at a passenger, they weren't, no big deal. End of story.

The only spurious argument here is the disingenuous analogy in your own post.

 

[Deadly Danson]

Playing Devil's Advocate, we only have your (biased) word for it that they weren't...

Of course. I can't prove a thing but I asked them about it and they named the person they were aiming the boos at and I spoke to that person who confirmed it. Beyond that it's up to you who you believe.

 

[Gazwag]

Do you take offence when people are booing the ref at a game in case it may be directed at you? .

Oh, the poster didn't say that the rail employee was surrounded by a crowd of strikers (like on a football pitch surrounded by the crowd), he suggested that one person was in amongst many passengers in a crowd. Clearly he should have noticed the smile on the strikers faces and spotted the employee they were jesting with.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

I'm sorry but that's a spurious argument. Do you take offence when people are booing the ref at a game in case it may be directed at you? You thought they were booing at a passenger, they weren't, no big deal. End of story.

No because football is completely different to people walking to the station. What a stupid question but yes I DID think it was directed at me and fellow commuters who quite frankly have had enough.

 

[Deadly Danson]

No because football is completely different to people walking to the station. What a stupid question but yes I DID think it was directed at me and fellow commuters who quite frankly have had enough.

Well you can rest assured they weren't.

 

[Diablo]

They don't and they aren't. And they are losing 5 days pay.

They are lucky they can afford to strike then !! I believe Paul Barber has said £300k is the cost to the club. What is the cost to all businnesses,workers in the South East. Tens of millions I expect.

Do you really believe it is worth fighting against modernisation. Which is surely what this is about.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

They are lucky they can afford to strike then !! I believe Paul Barber has said £300k is the cost to the club. What is the cost to all businnesses,workers in the South East. Tens of millions I expect.

Do you really believe it is worth fighting against modernisation. Which is surely what this is about.

Basically they are luddites. Same thing.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Well you can rest assured they weren't.

They shouldnt be striking. If anything we should boo them.

 

[bhanutz]

Well you can rest assured they weren't.

Be rest assured the public are losing any sort of sympathy they had with you lot. I had none by the way. All jobs involve an element of change, accept it, move on, or leave. There will be plenty of people to fill the vacancy you leave behind.

 

[TheJasperCo]

They are lucky they can afford to strike then !! I believe Paul Barber has said £300k is the cost to the club. What is the cost to all businnesses,workers in the South East. Tens of millions I expect.

Do you really believe it is worth fighting against modernisation. Which is surely what this is about.

That's why I don't understand the alleged political interference. This has gone far enough now, and all sides are being equally stubborn. Why would the Tory government sacrifice big business and significant losses to the local economy in favour of fighting the unions? To what end is the DfT looking for out of all this?

 

[Deadly Danson]

They are lucky they can afford to strike then !! I believe Paul Barber has said £300k is the cost to the club. What is the cost to all businnesses,workers in the South East. Tens of millions I expect.

Do you really believe it is worth fighting against modernisation. Which is surely what this is about.

I ask again - what part of removing people from trains, increasing risk and doing away with disability rights is modernisation? Modernisation would be removing 313s in favour of new trains, upgrading the platform screens so that they display accurate information, upgrading semaphore signals to colour light signals, providing drivers and guards with accurate and up to date information which they can pass on to guards, improving sensors so there is no way anything can get trapped in a train door, building another main line to ease congestion, even putting tube like platform doors to stop platform /train interface issues, improving training so guards have better customer service skills, simplified tickets so that customers always get the cheapest option, in cab signalling, more ice protection for third rails etc. Modernisation of the railway is desperately needed - cutbacks are not.

 

[Bozza]

I ask again - what part of removing people from trains.

You keep using this line. Southern are saying people won't be removed from trains.

 

[Deadly Danson]

You keep using this line. Southern are saying people won't be removed from trains.

"Except during disruption" - which day in the last few years wasn't there disruption?

 

[Rugrat]

"Except during disruption" - which day in the last few years wasn't there disruption?

But how unreasonable is that? Seems like a fairly obvious thing to do, if there's disruption at one point that means some staff can't be where they should be then try running the service anyway, what on earth is wrong with that?

Definitions can be put around what 'disruption' means to ensure that everyone plays with a straight bat

 

[Bozza]

"Except during disruption" - which day in the last few years wasn't there disruption?

In their 8 point plan, they propose that the specifics of what are those exceptional circumstances can be discussed and agreed with the RMT. Seems a reasonable starting point to me.

And, even if it were not, we get back to all those other DOO services currently operating on the Brighton <-> London main line that no one seems upset about.

 

[Hamilton]

I ask again - what part of removing people from trains, increasing risk and doing away with disability rights is modernisation? Modernisation would be removing 313s in favour of new trains, upgrading the platform screens so that they display accurate information, upgrading semaphore signals to colour light signals, providing drivers and guards with accurate and up to date information which they can pass on to guards, improving sensors so there is no way anything can get trapped in a train door, building another main line to ease congestion, even putting tube like platform doors to stop platform /train interface issues, improving training so guards have better customer service skills, simplified tickets so that customers always get the cheapest option, in cab signalling, more ice protection for third rails etc. Modernisation of the railway is desperately needed - cutbacks are not.

According to the 8 point plan in this thread Southern are guaranteeing that they will not be removing a second member of staff from the train. The only reason a train would run without a second member of staff would be in exceptional circumstances.

The key line in the 8 point plan is this 'full control of train dispatch'. The RMT know that if they lose this to the drivers then they have lost control of the railways. Their people control whether trains run or do not. With that power they have more influence.

Southern believe that if they give control of train dispatch to drivers then they only have to get one person - the driver - onto the train to guarantee that the train leaves the platform and hopefully the whole network runs on time.

I support the idea that there should always be 2 staff members on a train. Perhaps Southern should put some parameters around their guarantee that trains will always ruin with 2 staff members except in exceptional circumstances - should that be 99% of services will always run with 2 staff members?

 

[Hamilton]

"Except during disruption" - which day in the last few years wasn't there disruption?

As far as I can see, Southern are trying to reduce disruption. The RMT are starting to lose me here. What is their problem? It's not disability rights or safety. They are using their members to retain union power. That's what it looks like.