southease station

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nah. It's got the two essential ingredients to be called a village ...

A church
And a website:-

What about Daily Mail reading little Englanders? They're essential village items.

 

[bigc]

I remember Moulsecoomb station opening, I used it on its second day (for some reason I couldn't do it on its first).

Moulsecoomb's in a strange place though. As you say, it just serves the uni and the north end of Hollingdean estate: if they had a station further into Moulsecoomb, it could serve that estate and Coldean. I just wonder why, given that the council is so keen on rapid transport links into the city, why more thought isn't given to offering more stations: the west coast line is packed with them.

And don't get me started on the closure of the Kemp Town branch line

I guess that's why I'm not a transport planner.

I'm guessing in regards to offering more stations, Southern wouldn't be particularly keen on this as it would slow down faster services? You're right about the west coast line though, I mean it seems like there is a station every few hundred yards around Worthing and the amount that lurk around South London is incredible.

Talking of the Kemp Town line, that probably stopped us having more stations than we do now. From what I've read, it was built to prevent a rival line terminating in Brighton. If we'd had that, no doubt more stations would have been built in another part of the town.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

And don't get me started on the closure of the Kemp Town branch line

I guess that's why I'm not a transport planner.

Interestingly ... when Kemp Town station was open, trains took eleven minutes to make the journey from Brighton station. And the service was no better than one train an hour.

The number 7 bus is scheduled to take just twelve minutes, on a more direct route, passing the places in central Brighton that people really want to go to, and the service runs every six minutes.

The truth of the matter is that, for short, local journeys, far more people find buses more convenient than trains - and they use them in much greater numbers than most commentators on "poor public transport" ever seem to realise.

When trains ran between Uckfield and Lewes, far more people used the buses between the two towns than ever went by train. Mainly because buses pick people up nearer their homes and drop them off much closer to where they want to go.

 

[The Large One]

When trains ran between Uckfield and Lewes, far more people used the buses between the two towns than ever went by train. Mainly because buses pick people up nearer their homes and drop them off much closer to where they want to go.

Does this mean that the proposed re-opening/re-building of the Lewes - Uckfield line is doomed to failure?

 

[British Bulldog]

I think it controlled more than the crossing. My recollection is that it was staffed overnight for years by a guy who lived locally who was officially employed as a "relief", whose job (in theory) could send him anywhere in the South Central division. But he rather liked Southease ... a TV in the box and a good book to read, while he waited for one train to pass by at about 4 o'clock in the morning.

Now I know why I have little knowledge of Southease signal box and Crossing LB it all came back to me talking to a mate at work today! The crossing is called Itford crossing and the signal box was called Itford crossing box. Apparently it was a block post signal box and was de-comissioned in the late 1960's.

 

[British Bulldog]

Does this mean that the proposed re-opening/re-building of the Lewes - Uckfield line is doomed to failure?

It allways has been and there's bigger money going into other area's soon so it will be forgotten any way.

 

[Beach Hut]

I suppose an option for old railway lines could be what they do in France.

Myself, Mrs Hut and the kids with another family of 2 adults and 2 kids had a fantastic afternoon on a cycling rail vehicle in Charente region of France which took around 2 hours down and 1.5 hours uphill cycling this wagon on the rails. We had to get off and push over road crossings but a really wonderful family effort and great fun.

Also it was pure excercise so knocked off a calorie or 100

 

[The Large One]

It allways has been and there's bigger money going into other area's soon so it will be forgotten any way.

I was led to believe it was all private money going into the project.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Does this mean that the proposed re-opening/re-building of the Lewes - Uckfield line is doomed to failure?

Every study that has ever been done on the Lewes - Uckfield line has demonstrated that fares revenue will not be anywhere near enough to deliver an economic return on the capital investment required.

The ONLY proposal with a chance of being self-financing that has been made in recent years was the scheme put forward by Connex, when they tried to win a renewal of their franchise. This was to spend money on re-opening the Lewes - Uckfield line and use it as the route to Victoria for ALL trains running from Eastbourne. That would have created spare capacity on the Brighton mainline to allow more frequent trains from Brighton. But it would have meant no direct trains from Eastbourne to Gatwick Airport (which was unpopular). And it would also have meant the government having to tolerate Connex still running trains in the UK (which was even less popular).

The other option which could possibly work would be to allow Uckfield to double in size and charge the developers a huge premium for releasing the land for housing. With enough new houses, that could fund the reopening of the line (in exactly the same way that the expansion of the London rail network was linked to housing development sponsored by the railway barons in the late nineteenth century). But no-one seems to like the idea of a massive new town in central Sussex, so I guess that's a no-no too.

 

[bigc]

Lord B, I remember using Connex but never knew the in's and out's.

What exactly did they do that was so bad?

 

[British Bulldog]

I was led to believe it was all private money going into the project.

Dont hold your breath waiting for it to happen then because the last I heard the private money was waiting for network rail to get involved in the project!

 

[British Bulldog]

The ONLY proposal with a chance of being self-financing that has been made in recent years was the scheme put forward by Connex, when they tried to win a renewal of their franchise. This was to spend money on re-opening the Lewes - Uckfield line and use it as the route to Victoria for ALL trains running from Eastbourne. That would have created spare capacity on the Brighton mainline to allow more frequent trains from Brighton. But it would have meant no direct trains from Eastbourne to Gatwick Airport (which was unpopular). And it would also have meant the government having to tolerate Connex still running trains in the UK (which was even less popular).

To be honest LB you can open as many lines as you want and increase the capacity of the Brighton - London trains as much as you want but there's one big problem! You can only get so many trains in and out of terminus stations like Victoria and Brighton and it's just about at that point now. Increasing capacity will only increase delays.

 

[GNF on Tour]

To be honest LB you can open as many lines as you want and increase the capacity of the Brighton - London trains as much as you want but there's one big problem! You can only get so many trains in and out of terminus stations like Victoria and Brighton and it's just about at that point now. Increasing capacity will only increase delays.

Fair point.

So, whats cheaper, extending train lengths (carriages) and associated platforms at rail stations or increasing the platform capacity at the Terminus? At the main terminus in Auckland they are about to spend $3 billion on extending the line from the terminus (so its no longer a terminus) and constructing a loop around the CBD thus enabling a greater frequency at the former terminus (that will by then be a normal station). However, I suppose thats not a option at London Bridge or Victoria, or is it?

 

[British Bulldog]

Fair point.

So, whats cheaper, extending train lengths (carriages) and associated platforms at rail stations or increasing the platform capacity at the Terminus? At the main terminus in Auckland they are about to spend $3 billion on extending the line from the terminus (so its no longer a terminus) and constructing a loop around the CBD thus enabling a greater frequency at the former terminus (that will by then be a normal station). However, I suppose thats not a option at London Bridge or Victoria, or is it?

The only option is to get a government that is really commited to spending £billions getting our transport system up to the level that is required instead of just talking about it. Hot air is great for balloons but not for public transport.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

To be honest LB you can open as many lines as you want and increase the capacity of the Brighton - London trains as much as you want but there's one big problem! You can only get so many trains in and out of terminus stations like Victoria and Brighton and it's just about at that point now. Increasing capacity will only increase delays.

That is probably the reason that the SRA weren't impressed with Connex's proposal.

While we're doing "blue sky thinking", how about this? Increase the capacity on the Brighton mainline, but don't send the extra trains to Victoria. Combine the project with Thameslink 2000 and send some of the trains via Blackfriars to Peterborough - for connections with the East Coast Main Line. And increase capacity through Kensington Olympia and send the rest of the extra trains to Watford Junction for direct connections with the West Coast Main Line.

At the same time, this frees up some of the space on the Victoria Line that is currently cluttered up with people making avoidable transfers between London Termini.

 

[British Bulldog]

That is probably the reason that the SRA weren't impressed with Connex's proposal.

While we're doing "blue sky thinking", how about this? Increase the capacity on the Brighton mainline, but don't send the extra trains to Victoria. Combine the project with Thameslink 2000 and send some of the trains via Blackfriars to Peterborough - for connections with the East Coast Main Line. And increase capacity through Kensington Olympia and send the rest of the extra trains to Watford Junction for direct connections with the West Coast Main Line.

At the same time, this frees up some of the space on the Victoria Line that is currently cluttered up with people making avoidable transfers between London Termini.

Got it in one LB, The last I heard the Brighton - london main line was 25% over capacity so it's all about tweaking things and seeing where they can shift people. It's like a big game of chess and occasionaly you meet checkmate.

 

[Gwylan]

The truth of the matter is that, for short, local journeys, far more people find buses more convenient than trains - and they use them in much greater numbers than most commentators on "poor public transport" ever seem to realise.

When trains ran between Uckfield and Lewes, far more people used the buses between the two towns than ever went by train. Mainly because buses pickpeople up nearer thoeir homes and drop them off much closer to where they want to go.

I hear what you're saying Ed, but my original question was why B&H LA was looking to develop rapid form of transport (monorail and tram) have been mooted instead of looking to develop the railway. Obviously, the bus system isn't deemed adequate, otherwise why talk of alternatives? I don't understand why that alternative shouldn't be the rail.

The rail is used for short journeys in London but that's primarily because people use tickets that are valid on trains as well as buses and tubes. There would need to be a closer tie-in between systems for it to work in Brighton.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I hear what you're saying Ed, but my original question was why B&H LA was looking to develop rapid form of transport (monorail and tram) have been mooted instead of looking to develop the railway. Obviously, the bus system isn't deemed adequate, otherwise why talk of alternatives? I don't understand why that alternative shouldn't be the rail.

The rail is used for short journeys in London but that's primarily because people use tickets that are valid on trains as well as buses and tubes. There would need to be a closer tie-in between systems for it to work in Brighton.

Because people wouldn't use it. The City's trains stations are all relatively far away from the town centres. If you want a rapid transport system people aren't going to want to walk 10 minutes to the train station. I think they are talking about fast buses with limited stops and dedicated platforms