Basil Fawlty
Don't Mention The War
Thats them down then, good riddance I say. Hopefully we'll play them next season, if we don't go down.
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Southampton deducted 10 points
- Thread starter The Large One
- Start date
Leon Crouch, who has had two spells as chairman of the football club, hit out at the "terrible timing" of the League's decision.
He told BBC Five Live Sport: "Southampton Leisure Holdings and Southampton Football Club are two separate companies.
We're not in administration, we're paying our bills and I don't see how they can take these points off us.
Southampton Football Club was set up so that if this ever happened, we would not have these points deducted - it's the way they have interpreted the rules"
That is exactly the point, you complete RETARD. Sake!
He told BBC Five Live Sport: "Southampton Leisure Holdings and Southampton Football Club are two separate companies.
We're not in administration, we're paying our bills and I don't see how they can take these points off us.
Southampton Football Club was set up so that if this ever happened, we would not have these points deducted - it's the way they have interpreted the rules"
That is exactly the point, you complete RETARD. Sake!
Aren't you taking a simplistic view of why clubs go into administration? It sounds like you are assuming every club goes into administration because they pay too much to get better players that improve their chances of winning, ignoring the wide range of financial outlays a club faces, including youth development, travel, ground maintenance, club functions. Etc. End most seasons in the red, have we over spent on players? Are we spending beyond our means on players or are their other drains on our resources, other limits to our income?
People keep pointing to "if so and so are in the play offs, will they lose their points", "if so and so is in automatic promotion, slip down to the play offs and go up any way", even your example deals with teams succeeding because of their club killing dealings.
I don't recall Luton being near the top of the division. I don't recall leeds pushing for play offs before their point deduction, Southampton aren't on the cusp of premiership football.
It seems that clubs that go into administration aren't overly successful on the pitch, so they aren't really succeeding at the expense of other teams.
Indeed. Leeds embarrassed the FA by utilising a loophole in the points deductions rules. It's why they were punished so heavily. The FA don't want to be embarrassed again.
Teams spending beyond thier means are conning other more prudent teams (and their supporters) out of points and therefore potentially out of revenue/promotion/better player signings etc. It's clear to me that there needs to be a disincentive. Leeds proved that rules needed to be in place and they now are. I'd weep if it happened to us, but I couldn't argue with it.
Yes, deductions is ruining league football but I can't see a better alternative right now.
The biggest issue I can see is the amount of money swilling about in the Prem that is not trickling down the tables in the way it used to. Huge player wages take funds out of the football circle and attracts foreign players. So clubs in lower leagues do not benefit from under-pinning our top league and they don't have a revenue stream from selling players upwards (any kids that show any promise are bought very early on by the big clubs, thus shooting the legs out from under smaller clubs). If the c%nts in the huge clubs weren't so remorselessly greedy and if the gap between Prema nd Championship and Championship and L1 and L2 wasn't so big there would be far fewer problems of the type we are now seeing at Saints and other clubs.
Yes, deductions is ruining league football but I can't see a better alternative right now.
The biggest issue I can see is the amount of money swilling about in the Prem that is not trickling down the tables in the way it used to. Huge player wages take funds out of the football circle and attracts foreign players. So clubs in lower leagues do not benefit from under-pinning our top league and they don't have a revenue stream from selling players upwards (any kids that show any promise are bought very early on by the big clubs, thus shooting the legs out from under smaller clubs). If the c%nts in the huge clubs weren't so remorselessly greedy and if the gap between Prema nd Championship and Championship and L1 and L2 wasn't so big there would be far fewer problems of the type we are now seeing at Saints and other clubs.
I think those are all very minor points. The bottom line is they wouldn't be in Administration if they lived within their means, and do you honestly think they've gone into Administration because they've spent too much on youth development and travel? I haven't seen their books but I bet you the vast majority of their expenditure is on acquiring and paying the first team squad.
And it has a knock-on effect. Clubs like Leicester and Leeds were allowed to pay inflated wages that they couldn't afford (and in Leicester's case build a new ground) knowing that if the dream died they could wipe the slate clean by going bust and reforming. A little bit of plucking at the heart strings ("we mustn't let this famous old club die") and voila! A new club that to the outside world looked identical, i.e. same playing name, same ground, same league position.
In order to compete other clubs had to match the inflated wages (and transfer fees, sigining-on fees etc) being offered by the 'live the dream' clubs and thus financial problems spread through the leagues like a dose of measles. There HAS to be a sanction to try and bring this under control, and barring some sort of regulatory control clubs have to know that going into Administration won't be tolerated. Personally I think the 10 point penalty is wrong inasmuch as it distorts the league tables and isn't severe enough - I'd chuck the offending clubs out of the League.
Austrian Gull
Well-known member
I think people are not looking at the real issue here, global warming. It's 15 degrees in Portsmouth but minus 10 in Southampton.
I'll get me coat...
(Joke heard on TalkBalls last night)
I'll get me coat...
(Joke heard on TalkBalls last night)
Fred Oliver - Legend
Well-known member
what happened in 78?
impossible for them to get a cva because of hmrc. be -25 rather than any of those figures above surely, but then we all know how reliable the fl are. ten for admin and the 15 for exiting without an agreed cva.
Last game of the season.
We needed to beat Blackpool in the last game of the season AND either Southampton and Spurs needed to lose. A point for both of them and they both went up instead of us.
They were playing each other - surprise surprise it was an 'after you Claude' 0-0 draw.
Wankers.
BensGrandad
New member
I think, not that I know, that they may have very good grounds for a legal appeal as Sothampton FC have not gone into administration which is the body that the FA have any power over. I do not believe that they have any power over their parent company.
blockhseagull
Well-known member
But the two companies are linked, the parent company has no income apart from that of the football club and the stadium company. Meaning that they are one and the same, hence why the league have deduced points
The Spanish
Well-known member
Top post.
This really is becoming as boring as f*** now. Points deductions were supposed to be a real last resort as a punishment/disincentive against not running a tight ship or taking the piss out of the league, not something that virtually now guarantees at least one relegation place in the lower leagues, or condemns clubs to dropping out of the league before a ball has been kicked.
One thing I have to say though is that the view of some clubs being puritanically frugal at one end, playing fair while the bad ones spend like drunken sailors is not quite reality. Pretty much everyone lives beyond their means in degrees.
Easy 10
Brain dead MUG SHEEP
Hopefully their appeal will be deemed spurious, and the points deduction DOUBLED.
I'd like that.
I'd like that.
SurreySeagulls
Well-known member
We could have gone up to the old 1st division a season before we did but Southampton and Spurs played a 0-0 as it meant both of them got promoted instead of us and from memory the ball rarely made its way out of the centre circle. Remember the 1982 World Cup when West Germany and Austria played out a draw thus ensuring Algeria (I think) didn't qualify and both West Germany and Austria qualified. Which is why FIFA then decided all future last group games kicked off at the same time.
BensGrandad
New member
I know I have posted this before but when on Surrey FA we had to inspect clubs books and one of those was Crystal Palace who were owned by Matthews Butchers, Raymond Bloye was their chairman, and they filed their accounts as income nil expenditure nil and there was nothing the FA could do about it. Matthews butchers ceased trading but still the FA could do nothing all the time that the players were employed by Matthews Butchers as PR men. Southampton's case is the reverse but I would think that the principal is the same.
Of course it's over simplistic and many smaller clubs survive because of the personal support of a few (relatively) wealthy individuals - BHA being an example.
I have my own reasons for being quite pleased that Southampton are going down - and I'm glad they're going down despite the points deduction (they can't come back and claim they would have stayed up without it) - but every time I see a club in trouble like this I can't help but think "there but for the grace of God go we".
Even with our fanatical and well marshalled fan base there are some situations where fan's determination just won't make a difference. And that must hurt.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,075
Nothing to do with the FA, it is the Football League.
Point still reasonably well made.
Spiros
Well-known member
It's becoming boring because there are some clubs out there who still don't get it. You're right in that most live beyond their means, but those going into administration are then doing so at the expense of the small guys. Didn't Leeds shaft the likes of the local pie man and St John's ambulance while their players still got paid in full?
We're still paying now because in the 70s and 80s we lived beyond our means but the club didn't worm out of it by going into administration, like Leeds, Bournemouth, Rotherham, Leicester and now Southampton.
Saints gambled that they could get back to the prem but it failed. They won't be the last.