Pevenseagull
meh
- Jul 20, 2003
- 20,825
Were going to give people £15.
Now giving people another £100.
'Faulty valve'
f*** these companies
Now giving people another £100.
'Faulty valve'
f*** these companies
Privatise them - more competition will means lower prices and better quality service for consumers and customers
So do valves never go faulty if they are owned and run by the state?Were going to give people £15.
Now giving people another £100.
'Faulty valve'
f*** these companies
I seem to recall that the state (i.e. the government) didn't WANT to borrow money to invest . For a reason which I'm not sure was valid, borrowing by water authorities counted towards the PSBR, even though they were not state-owned (which some people might not realise). I suspect it was more of a political thing. At the end of the day, as Mrs T quite rightly said, the cake that has to be sliced up is only so big, but she then allowed the privatised companies to make the cake significantly bigger (see your water bills) and then take a massive slice away in dividends that wasn't needed previously. The model was always bound to drive a certain behaviour i.e. to maximise dividends and push the boundaries of the regulator as far as they could in a game of cat and mouse. What has happened at Thames Water recently - they are apparently defaulting on their debt repayment (£14bn) - is awful. Thames Water was debt-free at the point of privatisation. They built up a debt of £14bn, with all interest payments being paid, or due to be paid, by the consumer. The owners have withdrawn £7bn in dividends from a virtually risk-free operation, whereby the government has to give them 25 years notice to withdraw their licence (I think I've got that timescale right - certainly used to be the timescale the last time I heard it mentioned by the FD of another water company.the state couldn't afford the level of investment required to improve to the standards required
Government borrows from private sector investors to deliver investments = good
Private borrows from from private sector investors (often at better rates than Governments would get) = bad / greed / disgusting that private investors profit from these things, shouldn't be allowed, etc..
Society's thinking is so messed up at times
Are there any examples of this? Genuine question because I'm surprised - personally I'd be happier lending money to the UK treasury than any private company and so I would tend to demand a lower rate of interest.Private borrows from from private sector investors (often at better rates than Governments would get)
The Water companies haven’t invested a penny, but are still paying dividends to their shareholders. Raw sewage is being poured into rivers, lakes and sea.So do valves never go faulty if they are owned and run by the state?
We see constant politicking about the lack of money in public services and cuts being made, so why do people think nothing can and will go wrong if under state control? Surely the evidence says it could and probably would happen regardless of who was in charge
Part of the reason to privatise water was simply that the state couldn't afford the level of investment required to improve to the standards required (especially drinking water quality) so how do people make the blind leap that suddenly the state will solve everything and all problems that require major investment to deliver will (seemingly) immediately happen overnight and that the state will be able to easily finance them without taking money away from other parts of the services that taxation and Government debt has to pay for? (hopefully not more PFI deals that cost multiples more than they should)
Government borrows from private sector investors to deliver investments = good
Private borrows from from private sector investors (often at better rates than Governments would get) = bad / greed / disgusting that private investors profit from these things, shouldn't be allowed, etc..
Society's thinking is so messed up at times
So do valves never go faulty if they are owned and run by the state?
We see constant politicking about the lack of money in public services and cuts being made, so why do people think nothing can and will go wrong if under state control? Surely the evidence says it could and probably would happen regardless of who was in charge
Part of the reason to privatise water was simply that the state couldn't afford the level of investment required to improve to the standards required (especially drinking water quality) so how do people make the blind leap that suddenly the state will solve everything and all problems that require major investment to deliver will (seemingly) immediately happen overnight and that the state will be able to easily finance them without taking money away from other parts of the services that taxation and Government debt has to pay for? (hopefully not more PFI deals that cost multiples more than they should)
Government borrows from private sector investors to deliver investments = good
Private borrows from from private sector investors (often at better rates than Governments would get) = bad / greed / disgusting that private investors profit from these things, shouldn't be allowed, etc..
Society's thinking is so messed up at times
Really or wind-up?So do valves never go faulty if they are owned and run by the state?
We see constant politicking about the lack of money in public services and cuts being made, so why do people think nothing can and will go wrong if under state control? Surely the evidence says it could and probably would happen regardless of who was in charge
Part of the reason to privatise water was simply that the state couldn't afford the level of investment required to improve to the standards required (especially drinking water quality) so how do people make the blind leap that suddenly the state will solve everything and all problems that require major investment to deliver will (seemingly) immediately happen overnight and that the state will be able to easily finance them without taking money away from other parts of the services that taxation and Government debt has to pay for? (hopefully not more PFI deals that cost multiples more than they should)
Government borrows from private sector investors to deliver investments = good
Private borrows from from private sector investors (often at better rates than Governments would get) = bad / greed / disgusting that private investors profit from these things, shouldn't be allowed, etc..
Society's thinking is so messed up at times
How do you know whether South west water had any spares or not? Have they said that the issue here is that they didn't have the part and there will be a lead time before it arrives? and that caused the water quality issues that has led to some getting ill because they kept supplying this infected water due to not having a part to resolve the issue?Anything can go wrong in any system.
That’s why you should keep essential spares so that when something fails it can be swiftly replaced.
However when the accountants get their hands on things they decide that it costs too much keeping spares everywhere so they move them to regional depots. Then they decide that having several items held regionally is “money sitting on a shelf”so they centralise them.
Then they decide that holding spares at all is a waste and they rely on vendors to send them out when needed. Of course the vendor’s accountants have had the same idea so you end up with hardly any.
The accountants (on both sides) are happy as they have a service level agreement with (not very punitive) compensation when the SLA is missed.
I lost count of the times I had customers out of service because spares were en-route from a vendor at the other end of the country.
Are there any examples of this? Genuine question because I'm surprised - personally I'd be happier lending money to the UK treasury than any private company and so I would tend to demand a lower rate of interest.
Good to have the discussion, though. And your point about publicly-run organisations making mistakes is quite valid, of course.