[News] South Africa: Poacher killed by elephant then eaten by lions

[sussex_guy2k2]

Although we kill innocent animals in their billions and eat them.

There is an element of hypocrisy here (which I count myself as part of) and Vegans cannot be challenged on this.

Surely no animals life is worth more than the other. They are all sentient beings. There is much rallying against the killing of dogs or cats for food but an Indian's horror at a cow being killed is considered irrelevant.

Whether an animal is rare or not, for me, shouldn't be the question. Killing animals is either fine or it's not. I see no in between.

Now I'm off to eat my chicken sandwich and wallow in my hypocrisy.

Circle of life isn't it.

The biggest issue I have with it is when it's done for sport.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

that is probably the most clueless statement i have read on this board......there are illegal immigrants in south africa from all over the continent , malawi , zimbabwe , zambia , even the nigerians are involved in the drug racket......to say there are "jobs" for everyone is just utter bollox.......the country is fast defending into total chaos.

I know Africa a bit, but not as well as South East Asia, to be sure. Over there its not the poor or the displaced or desperate that take the bucks from the Chinese and take stuff out of the forest, instead it's villagers who want to make quick money.... they will tell you that they have to do it to make a living, but it's not true...

So, I never said that there are enough jobs to go round, just in my experience the people doing the poaching or illegal logging are not those in desperate need of a job. Africa may well be very different I suppose. Just I expect that when the Chinese businessman comes offering big bucks for ivory, I'm surprised if the local villagers allow the immigrants to get that bounty

 

[DavidRyder]

The poachers are after the tusks, they chainsaw them out of the elephants head, they don't eat elephants.

I hope the lions have got the head of the poacher mounted on a wooden plaque and hanging on the wall of their den, like Basil Fawltys Moose.

Whilst drinking a Gin & Orange, a Lemon Squash, and a Scotch & Water...

 

[maffew]

I know Africa a bit, but not as well as South East Asia, to be sure. Over there its not the poor or the displaced or desperate that take the bucks from the Chinese and take stuff out of the forest, instead it's villagers who want to make quick money.... they will tell you that they have to do it to make a living, but it's not true...

So, I never said that there are enough jobs to go round, just in my experience the people doing the poaching or illegal logging are not those in desperate need of a job. Africa may well be very different I suppose. Just I expect that when the Chinese businessman comes offering big bucks for ivory, I'm surprised if the local villagers allow the immigrants to get that bounty

I'm not quite sure where you are getting your ideas from, but I think that applying your experience from Asia things might be different in Africa. Im quite certain it is in South Africa
A quick look for jobs in Mpumalanga shows that nearly all jobs (well advertised/legal ones) are in tourism and I am certain you would need to have a matric (I guess they are a bit like GCSEs) and therefore be literate to even think about applying,

https://www.indeed.co.za/m/jobs?l=Kruger+National+Park,+Mpumalanga

Poachers get shot all the time, in order to protect the wildlife therefore tourism. The perception that it's an easy way to make money or they could/should get a job is IMO a bit misplaced.
Ranger shoots poacher, well, its not going to get the same clicks as this "news"

 

[Bry Nylon]

Authorities at Kruger National Park have just issued an e-fit of a suspect they would like to trace in connection with this incident.

 

[Mackenzie]

Every sympathy with the lion having to eat that sort of shit.

 

[METALMICKY]

Most of the poachers are just trying to feed their families.

It's the people who buy the stuff that should be vilified

And the lions managed to feed their families too!

 

[Flagship]

Poached pygmy - luvly.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Some animal's lives are worth more than others. Even some people's lives are worth more than others.

Examples include a rare male of a species nearing extinction, compared to that of a common chicken. In humanity, an example would be the life of a leading scientist compared to that of an illiterate criminal. These examples show the range of worth of individual lives for different reasons - the preservation of a species and usefulness to humanity - but ultimately their values are determined by what is best for the world.

In regards to meat eating - none of it is fine, it's all probably quite immoral - but some of it is more than others. Eating a chimp, dog or dolphin is a lot worse than eating a chicken or a fish, as the former are intelligent animals that demonstrate social awareness. Chickens and fish don't know what the **** is going on.

But even eating fish and chickens is not really okay, even though they lack awareness, they still have the capacity to feel pain.

I guess vegans do have the moral high ground at the moment, but their goals are unrealistic. It will take time and technology to phase out meat eating completely, but it will happen one day. The people of the future will look down on eat meating the same way we do with slavery.

You've been reading too much Orwell - All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others......

 

[sydney]

I know Africa a bit, but not as well as South East Asia, to be sure. Over there its not the poor or the displaced or desperate that take the bucks from the Chinese and take stuff out of the forest, instead it's villagers who want to make quick money.... they will tell you that they have to do it to make a living, but it's not true...

So, I never said that there are enough jobs to go round, just in my experience the people doing the poaching or illegal logging are not those in desperate need of a job. Africa may well be very different I suppose. Just I expect that when the Chinese businessman comes offering big bucks for ivory, I'm surprised if the local villagers allow the immigrants to get that bounty

it comes down to wether they have a gun or not ....end of , your assertation that some could herd , fish or farm is so wide of the mark it makes glens penalty look top corner .

all comes down to wether they have guns , ammo and the balls to do it .....i wouldn't want to take a pop at a rhino , you only get one go so the word desperation springs to mind immediately...

 

[sydney]

Farming. Fishing. Herding. Working in shops. Working in factories. I mean, any and all kind of jobs exist in every country

so so wrong mate ...!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

it comes down to wether they have a gun or not ....end of , your assertation that some could herd , fish or farm is so wide of the mark it makes glens penalty look top corner .

all comes down to wether they have guns , ammo and the balls to do it .....i wouldn't want to take a pop at a rhino , you only get one go so the word desperation springs to mind immediately...

They will come from herding / farming /fishing communities, and you're quite right that they're going to be the ones with the balls to go and do it - the guns will be freely available regardless - they'll be the strongest, toughest blokes in the village, absolutely - which is completely my point so not sure why you're saying I'm so wrong when now you're agreeing with me.... These aren't the kind of people who need a job, they're the kind of people who are capable in the wild and want to earn their money quicker

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

I hope it hurt

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I'm not quite sure where you are getting your ideas from, but I think that applying your experience from Asia things might be different in Africa. Im quite certain it is in South Africa
A quick look for jobs in Mpumalanga shows that nearly all jobs (well advertised/legal ones) are in tourism and I am certain you would need to have a matric (I guess they are a bit like GCSEs) and therefore be literate to even think about applying,

https://www.indeed.co.za/m/jobs?l=Kruger+National+Park,+Mpumalanga

Poachers get shot all the time, in order to protect the wildlife therefore tourism. The perception that it's an easy way to make money or they could/should get a job is IMO a bit misplaced.
Ranger shoots poacher, well, its not going to get the same clicks as this "news"

Were not talking about the kind of people who look for jobs in the local paper - there's huge subsistence economies in that part of the world. People there want to make a quick buck, they're not scared of the rangers or the wildlife, if some Chinese wants to pay them loads for a horn or skin, they'll go and get it. But if the market in animal parts didn't exist, they wouldn't be sitting around penniless, they would keep doing what their villages have been doing for centuries. And as the strong tough ballsy ones they'd be in high demand

 

[sydney]

They will come from herding / farming /fishing communities, and you're quite right that they're going to be the ones with the balls to go and do it - the guns will be freely available regardless - they'll be the strongest, toughest blokes in the village, absolutely - which is completely my point so not sure why you're saying I'm so wrong when now you're agreeing with me.... These aren't the kind of people who need a job, they're the kind of people who are capable in the wild and want to earn their money quicker

nah mate ...you'll probably find he was an unemployed teacher or municipal worker .....guns are not easy to come by , the administration don't want the populus running around with brownings and kalashnikovs....makes for an uneasy time , they all know that poaching is illegal , they all know that South Africa's primary income is tourism based around the unique fauna.....poverty is a massive problem in S.A there are hundreds of thousands of university educated kids unemployed or wiping windscreens or trying to sell shoes , lightbulbs or mangoes at traffic lights .....it really is a truly declining system , and all in the last 15-20 years , a bloke getting trampled by an elephant and then devoured by lions whilst trying to feed his family is a pretty good analogy of the place to be fair.

 

[A1X]

 

[maffew]

Were not talking about the kind of people who look for jobs in the local paper - there's huge subsistence economies in that part of the world. People there want to make a quick buck, they're not scared of the rangers or the wildlife, if some Chinese wants to pay them loads for a horn or skin, they'll go and get it. But if the market in animal parts didn't exist, they wouldn't be sitting around penniless, they would keep doing what their villages have been doing for centuries. And as the strong tough ballsy ones they'd be in high demand

I know exactly the kind of place it as and the people they are, and opportunities they dont have, having lived there for 7 years.
It must be quite different in Borneo/South East Asia. Whether SA is different to other parts of Africa I have no idea

Digressing anyway I'm in no way for the record defending poachers or poaching. I'm anti, of course especially endangered species. I'm just not one to think that someone possibly plying his wrong misinformed/ill educated trade is scum or a bad person who deserves to die. The last thing on their minds I am sure is that there might only be a 30 year supply left of these animals. Why would they give a shit?

 

[Triggaaar]

......a russian or yank millionaire would probably pay 50 k to shoot a rhino

How much would a billionaire pay to shoot a russian or yank big game hunter?

 

[Shropshire Seagull]

One Nil to the Animals.

If only !!

More like One - Mill [million] to the poachers in the bigger picture ...

Live by the jungle, die by the jungle - karma indeed.