[Technology] Solar Panels

[WATFORD zero]

As I understand, a major factor in cost/return is whether the roof you want to use faces South, West or East and it's size, but people giving details of costs above don't seem to be mentioning that aspect

 

[McTavish]

As I understand, a major factor in cost/return is whether the roof you want to use faces South, West or East and it's size, but people giving details of costs above don't seem to be mentioning that aspect

Fair point although as long as the roof doesn't face North you are OK. I was told that West and East are about 80% as efficient as South. I will have 14 on a South facing roof and another 8 on the East

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

As I understand, a major factor in cost/return is whether the roof you want to use faces South, West or East and it's size, but people giving details of costs above don't seem to be mentioning that aspect

Or indeed whether the panels are positioned to point upwards or downwards.

 

[carlzeiss]

The VAT cut has come too late for me as I paid for my installation earlier this month .
Currently generating 20KW per day from 11 panels with 6.4KW battery storage which pretty much covers all my office and home use . ( Only 2KW on a cloudy day though)
Energy costs today - £0.77 so far , most of which is standing charges . There is enough power to heat water so zero gas usage and there will be probably 1KW left in the batteries for the morning
If you are going to go solar then battery storage is a must due to the current pathetic feed in rates .

 

[Audax]

The VAT cut has come too late for me as I paid for my installation earlier this month .
Currently generating 20KW per day from 11 panels with 6.4KW battery storage which pretty much covers all my office and home use . ( Only 2KW on a cloudy day though)
Energy costs today - £0.77 so far , most of which is standing charges . There is enough power to heat water so zero gas usage and there will be probably 1KW left in the batteries for the morning
If you are going to go solar then battery storage is a must due to the current pathetic feed in rates .

Absolutely. And I believe you're now free to install whatever generation capacity you can achieve? My system we were restricted to 4kW max as the government said so. Which unfortunately will also put limits on what we can do in terms of using a home battery to enhance the system.

 

[Superphil]

Always wondered why they don’t make them to look like roof tiles?

Tesla do, and there are others, one is even using natural slate to generate hot water.

 

[Audax]

Well poop. Home batteries are apparently *not* included in the zero-rating for VAT. Suppose it's possible they just forgot to mention them, more likely they have chosen not to include them.

Just checked - so far today (thanks to the Zoe's battery being full since mid-morning) I've exported 11.5 kWh back to the grid. Consumed 9.8 kWh of solar generated power, and imported 2.8 kWh. With a decently sized battery I could have had plenty of power stored on-site for use tonight to avoid drawing from the grid. Might still be time to just bite the bullet now that bills have increased so much.

 

[McTavish]

Absolutely. And I believe you're now free to install whatever generation capacity you can achieve? My system we were restricted to 4kW max as the government said so. Which unfortunately will also put limits on what we can do in terms of using a home battery to enhance the system.

There is still a limit - not sure exactly what it is - but I was only allowed 22 panels without having to get a whole load of extra permisions. Even with 22 there was an extra piece of bureaucracy to go through.

 

[Fungus]

Always wondered why they don’t make them to look like roof tiles?

Oddly, the National Trust cafe at Kynance Cove in Cornwall has had them for perhaps 10 years. No idea why they haven't caught on. They do clever stuff with the toilet water too:

"Talking of public lavatories, have you visited the one at Kynance Cove yet? Did you notice the roof, turfed with native plants? How about the walls made from local stone or its corridors clad in sweet chestnut timber? We rather hope you didn’t, because the aim of all our landscape improvement is for it to blend in with the area’s outstanding natural beauty. Environmental protection, as always, is high on the list too. A ‘bio bubble’ tertiary sewage treatment system at Kynance deals with all waste at the busy site, directly boosting the Cove’s bathing water quality. The café is the first Trust property to be roofed with photo-voltaic solar roof tiles, generating more than five thousand kilowatt hours of electricity a year – enough to make 45,550 cups of tea a year. Thermafleece sheep’s wool insulates the floor and roof, the latter also sporting a solar water heating panel."

 

[Bodian]

The biggest increase in my bill this year is the 'standing charge', which now makes up over a third of my electricity bill. So, no real incentive to use less electricity - and as you'll still have to be connected to the grid, you'll still have to pay the standing charge anyway.....

 

[Daddies_Sauce]

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?390347-Solar-Together-Sussex&highlight=solar

Same as [MENTION=13923]carlzeiss[/MENTION] this is too late for us too. 11 x 380w panels, split 7 and 4 across south and east roof space, 5kWh hybrid inverter, 6.5 kWh battery. Not sure what todays announcement means in terms on VAT for battery but our total install attracted VAT at 5%. Install went 'live' on 1/12/2021, so running now for almost 4 months, we have used everything we have generated bar 24kWh so far (need to get registered for SEG payments), what the house and battery does not soak up, gets directed to the hot water tank.

 

[Machiavelli]

It's got more to do with the government getting stingy. Those of us who had solar panels installed under the original FIT system (believe it was changed in 2019) signed a contract that locks us in to a reasonable rate of return, especially for those who can keep most of the electricity generating on-site and avoid exporting. The scheme I'm on we send in a meter reading every quarter. From that reading, our most recent payment was 15.92p/kWh produced and then 5.57p/kWh "exported" - but the contract assumes that we always export 50% of what we generate. The amount we get paid increases every year - I'll know what it was bumped to for 2022 by mid-April, but from memory the increase is linked to inflation so it should be a decent increase this year.

For our system, we're now in profit once we combine how much we've been paid directly for generating as well as how much we've saved off our bills by using the power on-site. Took roughly 7 years. I think by the end of this year we'll also have paid off the power diverter we had retrofitted (that directs unused power into our hot water system to reduce gas needs), and by end of next year it'll also have paid for the EV charger we fitted when I got my Zoe nearly 18 months ago.

I've not looked into the new scheme in any detail, but I believe it's now based on how much you actually export and paying you the current market rate and it now takes quite a bit longer to pay off the installation costs.

If the VAT removal extends to home batteries and heat pumps, I might need to look into those options. I had a quote for a battery retrofit a couple years ago that was borderline on being able to pay for itself in a reasonable time frame, but if VAT is being removed, and electric/gas bills remain high for a prolonged period, it might be time to get it done. Same with the heat pump - for us, borderline, but might be worth doing now with gas prices going stupid.

Just goes to show that it was a poor scheme if you broke even after 7 years, whereas the vast majority didn't get to take advantage of that offer. Much better would be that the government just sold a load of longer-term bonds (20 years?), so that there could be the funds available for a mass buying of solar panels.

 

[happypig]

It's got more to do with the government getting stingy. Those of us who had solar panels installed under the original FIT system (believe it was changed in 2019) signed a contract that locks us in to a reasonable rate of return, especially for those who can keep most of the electricity generating on-site and avoid exporting. The scheme I'm on we send in a meter reading every quarter. From that reading, our most recent payment was 15.92p/kWh produced and then 5.57p/kWh "exported" - but the contract assumes that we always export 50% of what we generate. The amount we get paid increases every year - I'll know what it was bumped to for 2022 by mid-April, but from memory the increase is linked to inflation so it should be a decent increase this year.

For our system, we're now in profit once we combine how much we've been paid directly for generating as well as how much we've saved off our bills by using the power on-site. Took roughly 7 years. I think by the end of this year we'll also have paid off the power diverter we had retrofitted (that directs unused power into our hot water system to reduce gas needs), and by end of next year it'll also have paid for the EV charger we fitted when I got my Zoe nearly 18 months ago.

I've not looked into the new scheme in any detail, but I believe it's now based on how much you actually export and paying you the current market rate and it now takes quite a bit longer to pay off the installation costs.

If the VAT removal extends to home batteries and heat pumps, I might need to look into those options. I had a quote for a battery retrofit a couple years ago that was borderline on being able to pay for itself in a reasonable time frame, but if VAT is being removed, and electric/gas bills remain high for a prolonged period, it might be time to get it done. Same with the heat pump - for us, borderline, but might be worth doing now with gas prices going stupid.

Check your contract, mine doesn't allow me to fit any battery storage.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Fair point although as long as the roof doesn't face North you are OK. I was told that West and East are about 80% as efficient as South. I will have 14 on a South facing roof and another 8 on the East

Surely that can't be right? The panels facing due east and due west will be in the sun for little more than half the time of the panels facing due south; and the times the sun is at its hottest (noon) are the times when it is at the shallowest angle for the east-west panels, as opposed to full on for the south panels.

 

[drew]

It's got more to do with the government getting stingy. Those of us who had solar panels installed under the original FIT system (believe it was changed in 2019) signed a contract that locks us in to a reasonable rate of return, especially for those who can keep most of the electricity generating on-site and avoid exporting. The scheme I'm on we send in a meter reading every quarter. From that reading, our most recent payment was 15.92p/kWh produced and then 5.57p/kWh "exported" - but the contract assumes that we always export 50% of what we generate. The amount we get paid increases every year - I'll know what it was bumped to for 2022 by mid-April, but from memory the increase is linked to inflation so it should be a decent increase this year.

For our system, we're now in profit once we combine how much we've been paid directly for generating as well as how much we've saved off our bills by using the power on-site. Took roughly 7 years. I think by the end of this year we'll also have paid off the power diverter we had retrofitted (that directs unused power into our hot water system to reduce gas needs), and by end of next year it'll also have paid for the EV charger we fitted when I got my Zoe nearly 18 months ago.

I've not looked into the new scheme in any detail, but I believe it's now based on how much you actually export and paying you the current market rate and it now takes quite a bit longer to pay off the installation costs.

If the VAT removal extends to home batteries and heat pumps, I might need to look into those options. I had a quote for a battery retrofit a couple years ago that was borderline on being able to pay for itself in a reasonable time frame, but if VAT is being removed, and electric/gas bills remain high for a prolonged period, it might be time to get it done. Same with the heat pump - for us, borderline, but might be worth doing now with gas prices going stupid.

We got ours in 2011 and our production rate is about 56p p/Kwh but I don't think it makes any difference how much you keep/export! We get the 56p for everything generated whether we use it or not and then another 3.95p for 50% of what we generate. The original scheme, as far as I'm aware, started off very generous and then reduced over the years however, as you say, we locked into a contract which, in our case, is 25 years long.

For the record, our roof is a WWS facing so not optimum but the panels don't need the sun on them to generate power although it increases what they do generate when it is.

 

[drew]

Every new home being built should be required by law to have solar PV panels on the roof, as well as a hot water solar panel. Add to that rainwater recovery for toilets and washing machines and where feasible all new builds should have ground source heating.

It should be the legal requirement, but of course, how would that effect the massive profitability of the likes of Barratts, Berkeley Group and Persimmon? They ain’t going to let their politician friends and company directors tell them to do that are they?

I wonder if the energy generating company lobby group have a say in that! Or am I just being cynical?

 

[Wardy's twin]

Always wondered why they don’t make them to look like roof tiles?

Think the new ones look like tiles....ok for new houses which is a start.

 

[Papak]

Always wondered why they don’t make them to look like roof tiles?

Likewise, probably easier to make them look like Welsh slate than Kent Clay nibs.

https://www.gb-sol.co.uk/products/pvslates/default.htm

 

[Miximate]

Any Sussex based companies that people can recommend (including battery storage options) ?

 

[Audax]

Any Sussex based companies that people can recommend (including battery storage options) ?

No idea if they're still good, but we had ours installed by Paynes and they were very good. Based near Uckfield. If I do look into viability of Heat pumps I'll talk to them first.