So, why shouldn't Iran have a nuclear programme ?

[Insel affe]

The american stance on iran ( which i agree with) would be easier to justify if they applied the same standards to israel.

Money and the jewish american vote will never allow it to be an equal stance.

 

[Everest]

They have prior,

Shit. And here I was thinking that he was in the England team.

 

[Trufflehound]

Hiroshima ring any bells?

Actually, yes they do. This one in fact, the Hiroshima Peace Bell:

I've rung it myself - as everyone who goes there is encouraged to.

 

[User removed 4]

Actually, yes they do. This one in fact, the Hiroshima Peace Bell:

I've rung it myself - as everyone who goes there is encouraged to.

i visited the bridge on the river kwai and kanchanaburi cemetery where a lot of british and commonwealth soldiers are buried, i would have dropped 10 more bombs if it saved just one british and commonwealth life, if we had been forced to fight through japan we would have seen bloodshed that would have made the eastern front look tame, the whole population would have fought , not just their army.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Right Im going to cut thru the PC bollox.

Basically Iran and North Korea are ruled by NUTTERS who would think nothing more of pressing the red launch button on a whim, with Pakistan coming a close third.

Thats why. Simple really.

 

[Eastleigh Seagull]

Right Im going to cut thru the PC bollox.

Basically Iran and North Korea are ruled by NUTTERS who would think nothing more of pressing the red launch button on a whim, with Pakistan coming a close third.

Thats why. Simple really.

Excellently put.

And just to put a hold on the usual rabid anti-Americanism prevalent on threads like these (I thought that went out with Obama) it isnt just the US that says Iran and North Korea cant have nukes it is the 185 countries who have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, including Russia and China. Its just that of those 185 countries there are 184 who are willing to sit by and let the US take the flak for standing up and trying to stop the nutters from getting hold of the bomb. If the US wasnt willing then I am sure Russia and China would be having a more than quiet work in their shell likes.

 

[Trufflehound]

NUTTERS who would think nothing more of pressing the red launch button on a whim.

Shit. I press the red button all the time and I thought nothing was happening. I swear at the digital decoder, but...


What have I done....?!?!?

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Shit. I press the red button all the time and I thought nothing was happening. I swear at the digital decoder, but...


What have I done....?!?!?

Suggest you purchase a tin hat and hide under the table.

Or start digging to avoid fallout...

 

[Trufflehound]

I was wondering why my remote control had "Property of the White House" stamped on the back.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

.

As to point two, why didn't they use them in the Cold War when Russia was on the verge of firing them from Cuba? There was a situation where they COULD have fired them but didn't. They are there as a deterrent to say 'you fire them at us, we'll fire back while your's are still in the air.

So you would think however,for your interest, I quote Senator McNamara who US secretary of State during the Cuba crisis who died recently:

"No one, except those involved at the time, appreciates that the only reason that Nuclear War was averted was blind luck, these reasonable men, Kennedy was a reasonable man, Khruschev was a reasonable man, Castro was a reasonable man...were only saved by blind luck and not brinkmanship or policy"

We were that close.

 

[TonyW]

Genuine question, not just courting controversy for the sake of it.

If the U.S.A is allowed one, who are they to dictate who else should or shouldn't be allowed to develop a nuclear programme also ?

Pillock!!!

 

[Hotchilidog]

Given that we seem to be hell bent on replacing trident and throwing loads of money at subsidising the nuclear power industry ourselves there is no reason why Iran is not entitled to have a nuclear programme. Who the hell are we to tell them what to do, especially as Israel, Pakistan, India and China are loaded to the gills with them.

And as for all this guff about them being nutters poised to attack us, just remember that Iran has never attacked or sought to attack a western nation, yet the west (and the russians) have constantly interfered with their government in ways we would never accept. If anyone is likely to be attacked soon it will probably be us attacking them, maybe they feel like they need a deterrent.

I don't think they should have one because as a card carrying lentil munching hippy I don't think anyone should be investing in nuclear power.

 

[sparkie]

What you also have to remember is that Iran has said that "Isreal should be wipped off the map"

This quote keeps getting repeated, but wasn't it just a case of Bush and Israel spinning the translation of his words.

I don't think he actually said 'wiped off the map' meaning blown to pieces. I think his words when translated actually meant that the original redrawing of the map when Isreal was created should be reversed. 'Wiped off the map' was a poor translation for 'the map should be returned to it's original pre-Israel state'.

A view which, although not neccessarily right, seems a bit more understandable.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

To be fair to the five permanent members of the UN security council, they do let ten other countries play for two years at a time then let everyone else vote to see who replaces the ten for their turn for the next two years and so on and so on.

All very fair I'd say

Ok, imagine a UN Security Council WITHOUT USA, Russia, China on it. Think it would work? Sounds a bit like the League of Nations to me...

 

[ATFC Seagull]

This quote keeps getting repeated, but wasn't it just a case of Bush and Israel spinning the translation of his words.

I don't think he actually said 'wiped off the map' meaning blown to pieces. I think his words when translated actually meant that the original redrawing of the map when Isreal was created should be reversed. 'Wiped off the map' was a poor translation for 'the map should be returned to it's original pre-Israel state'.

A view which, although not neccessarily right, seems a bit more understandable.

Bar the emotive language - is that not ultimately the same thing? He wants to eradicate a neighboring state.

 

[ATFC Seagull]

i visited the bridge on the river kwai and kanchanaburi cemetery where a lot of british and commonwealth soldiers are buried, i would have dropped 10 more bombs if it saved just one british and commonwealth life, if we had been forced to fight through japan we would have seen bloodshed that would have made the eastern front look tame, the whole population would have fought , not just their army.

A lot of historians reckon that the maths suggest the nuclear bombs did actually SAVE lives - and not necessarily just those of Allied soldiers either. I don't personally ethically believe in carpet bombing/nuclear weapons - but theres definitely an argument for it in that situation.

 

[drew]

Because the likes of us and the USA have small amounts of idiots who would lay down their life for a religious doctrine whereas in Iran you probably have large proportion of the country that would understand the Ayatolla Khameni when he told them from the steps of his presidential jet that their laying down their lives in the name of Allah would turn them into martyrs!!!

Am I happy that there are Nuclear weapons. No. Would I prefer there to be no nukes. Yes. However, we have them and they are here to stay so better that they are controlled rather than they fall into the hands of some demented terrorist. If Osama Bin Laden had them don't you think he would have used them by now?

 

[User removed 4]

Because the likes of us and the USA have small amounts of idiots who would lay down their life for a religious doctrine whereas in Iran you probably have large proportion of the country that would understand the Ayatolla Khameni when he told them from the steps of his presidential jet that their laying down their lives in the name of Allah would turn them into martyrs!!!

Am I happy that there are Nuclear weapons. No. Would I prefer there to be no nukes. Yes. However, we have them and they are here to stay so better that they are controlled rather than they fall into the hands of some demented terrorist. If Osama Bin Laden had them don't you think he would have used them by now?

i think you'll find that something like 60 plus per cent of iranians are under thirty, and i doubt that most of them are religious zealots just itching to meet the 67 virgins or whatever, but i still wouldnt want a nuclear armed iran.

 

[Dandyman]

Bar the emotive language - is that not ultimately the same thing? He wants to eradicate a neighboring state.

Without supporting his stance, I think the words were along the lines of removing the "zionist entity" from the map. You can read that as either "pushing the jews into the sea" or simply a Palestine* not under Israeli control.

* not clear what the Iranians think about Jordan which was also created out of the original Palestine mandate and seems to get ignored in these discussions.

 

[withdeanwombat]

We could make a start by scrapping the £19 billion (or whatever it is) renewal of the out of date, cold war style trident system that even the army consider pointless for modern warfare and buy our soldiers some decent body armour...

Or save the 19 billion and stop putting our army into ridiculous war situations.That'd be a better health service,better education service,and improved expenses for MPs.

Look on any world atlas.Gt Britain is that small island just north of France and it is crazy that such a country should be the world's policemans deputy.