[Albion] So, was it a red?

[pure_white]

Sorry but i need a second poll for this

 

[Stato]

Put it this way:

After Mike Dean decided that Maguire pulling back Danny Welbeck with his hand whilst not making an attempt to win the ball at Old Trafford last year was neither a penalty nor a sending off, Sky asked their resident refagree Dermot Gallagher for his opinion. He said:

"I think Mike Dean wasn't convinced it was a foul and the VAR can't intervene because being a subjective decision that it is... is it a coming-together or has he slipped?
Mike Dean has a difficult call. He's not sure if Maguire catches Welbeck and the VAR, when he looks at it, has to go with the referee as it's not a clear and obvious error.
It's one of those where you have to accept the ref's decision on the field and stand by it."

I've never heard Potter question a decision before and he was right to. The VAR referee did not spot a clear and obvious error. He had a second go at refereeing the incident and, thinking that his opinion was more important than the rules about when VAR should and should not intervene, he then called the actual ref to the pitch side.

 

[Yoda]

I was surprised it was even given as a foul as Elanga was the one making the challenge on Dunk and initiated the contact in making said challenge.

 

[kevo]

As others have said, I've never seen Potter question a decision before. He's clearly and rightly pissed off about it. The only consolation I guess is that we were already 1-0 down by then and may have lost the game anyway, but it destroyed it as a contest. How is it possibly a 'clear and obvious error'? Total nonsense.

 

[Curious Orange]

We'll just have to put this down on the list of Old Trafford/VAR oddities that started with the Lukaku versus Gaeten Bong's nuts incident.

 

[Uh_huh_him]

Of course it wasn;t a ****ing red.

Purely on the basis that he wasn't the last man, Webster was covering the situation and would have got to the ball first.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Two issues

1) Was the Man U guy “ denied an obvious goal-scoring opportunity” - upon watching replays yes, he was, clearly.
2) Was the refs decision a “clear and obvious error” which needed the VAR intervention. - No. Not at all.

So, if we follow the laws (as I understand them) the initial referees decision stands and Dunk stays on the pitch with a yellow. In short, not a red.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Of course it wasn;t a ****ing red.

Purely on the basis that he wasn't the last man, Webster was covering the situation and would have got to the ball first.

But “last man” doesn’t come into it. It never has done, it’s just something pundits have invented

 

[Icy Gull]

Nope, yellow was correct and as has been said by a few VAR should not have influenced the decision. Same if the ref had given a red not a yellow too

Had I realised it was Kevin BIG SIX Friend I would have known what was coming through

Remind me of some more for and against decisions he has made that have influenced our games

I remember the Liverpool game at the Amex where his bias led to him giving virtually every 50/50 to Liverpool. Was that the game Salah got away with a dive for a penalty too?

I know there have been others so please do remind me, I’d particularly like to hear of his decisions that have benefited us and influenced the game, there must be some?

 

[nicko31]

If it had been Maguire that committed the offence for Manure he would have stayed on the pitch. Not the first time they've had favourable decisions against us

The incident ruined the game last night, confident we would have got at least a point if 11 v 11

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Really 50/50 on this. The fact Webster is in the vicinity is so key, but would he have affected the chance.

I think he would have made it, so voted no.

In terms of the actual decision, is it really a CLEAR and obvious error?

Edit - just seen GPs interview - got it spot on IMO

 

[Johnny RoastBeef]

A real 50:50 call on whether Webster would’ve got there first.

So no, with blue tinted specs.

(But I wish Dunk had just cleared it upfield a second earlier. Such a dangerous place when being pressed. Half asleep).

Agreed.

I just wish Lallana had been on the pitch at the start of the 2nd half. He would have sensed the lack of intensity and chivied the team into greater urgency.

 

[Hugo Rune]

If ref had given red straight away, I’d have accepted it. But it wasn’t a clear and obvious error to give yellow, so Dunk should have stayed on the pitch

This.

Simple.

It looked pretty awful originally but the ref had clearly seen Webster steaming in. He the got that ****wit Friend on his earpiece reminding him of where he was and what he needed to do. It was only clear and obvious to Kevin Bloody Friend.

 

[Hugo Rune]

It was a red.

And I rather think that had the foul be reversed there might be a few threads that needed merging. 'United always get it their way' etc.

He would have been through for a clear shot. Webster was unlikely to get there in time.

I'm a banjo.

I can see why you call yourself a banjo.

“Webster was unlikely to get the in time” means that was not a clear and obvious error, VAR should not have intervened and the yellow should have stood.

“Webster would never, ever have got there in time” would be a red.

 

[redoubtable seagull]

I think the question is, should var have intervened? Was there a clear and obvious error from a direct red card incident?
As others have said, it was a bit 50/50. If the ref had given a red then I probably would have accepted it. But in the moment, he must have thought Webster had a chance of making a tackle. With var freeze framing and slowing down footage it becomes easier to present a different perspective on the incident.

But the main error here was Dunk’s of course.

 

[El Turi]

I think it’s the first time I’ve heard Potter criticise a refereeing decision since he took over which says it all for me. Elanga wins the ball but knocks it diagonally in the direction of Webster so I fail to see how VAR can be certain he’s going to get there first.

 

[DJ NOBO]

There were three decisions to be made - whether it was a foul in the first place, whether Webster would have got there first and if not, whether it qualified as a clear and obvious error under VAR rules. We were different shades of unlucky on all three. For certain, it was NEVER a clear and obvious refereeing error.
Classic Old Trafford red card.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Only just seen this back, I’m sorry but that is not a red, even if the ref had given it, but for VAR to intervene is really an absolute joke of a decision. Ruined the game, but even then I was hoping against hope we’d snatch a draw. UTA.

 

[Napper]

50/50 , the nearside angle says no , the higher angle that keeps webster out the picture suggests yes.

No surprise which angle they kept replaying to the ref.

The ref was watching half turned away , he'd made his mind up to change it before he even saw it IMO.

The way Utd players surrounded and jostled him was also a disgrace.

That ref is weak

 

[Hamilton]

No, because it wasn't a clear and obvious error.

I could understand why the ref may have awarded a red on the pitch. It was 50/50 as to whether Webster would have been able to intervene, but it was (in my view) 50/50 so in that instance it has to be a yellow.