So was 9/11 an inside job or not? (merged)

[scamander]

Yep, that's a completely different argument though, and isn't what Wrong Direction and others are claiming on this thread. And I still think it's nonsense, however far more plausible than some of the nonsense being claimed on this thread.

Apologies, should have made it clearer, I've not looked through Wrong Direction and what he was advocating or arguing. Just thought I'd pitch in with it as an alternative point. Only came on to mention the podcast where they debunk and weigh up the various theories.

 

[Commander]

and the Pentagon...

What about the Pentagon? You're saying it would have been harder to crash into the Pentagon than the towers? Probably. How does that change anything I said about hitting the towers?

The Pentagon is around 3.5 times the size of Wembley Stadium. Hardly a small target.

 

[wakeytom]

I can't believe this thread is still going. One of the worst events in living memory in the western world and one that as others have said world require too many people to keep their mouths closed.

Many of this stuff is looked at on you tube by generation snow flake who cannot believe the news ever but believe a random you tube vlogger who is trying to increase views to increase revenues which is exactly how it works

 

[Trufflehound]

So, to summarise: it was a donkey, or possibly a dolphin, on the grassy knoll that fired the magic bullet that started the Great Fire of London that set in motion the train of events that led to Nostradamus proving beyond doubt that 9/11 was a government conspiracy.

Or something. I think.

 

[LlcoolJ]

I can't believe this thread is still going. One of the worst events in living memory in the western world and one that as others have said world require too many people to keep their mouths closed.

I can't believe this thread was even started. Loose Change was completely debunked over ten years ago FFS.

Many of this stuff is looked at on you tube by generation snow flake who cannot believe the news ever but believe a random you tube vlogger who is trying to increase views to increase revenues which is exactly how it works

Indeed. "Fake news folks, fake news....".

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Remember when everyone thought Jimmy Savile was a really great guy?

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Munkfish]

What about the Pentagon? You're saying it would have been harder to crash into the Pentagon than the towers? Probably. How does that change anything I said about hitting the towers?

The Pentagon is around 3.5 times the size of Wembley Stadium. Hardly a small target.

I cant believe you can sit there, dismiss it so easily and say its not hard. anyway we are arguing for arguments sake here, as I dont believe it was fake, the impact that the plane made at the pentagon was very different to an impact that brought down the towers though and it is questionable, the problem is can you truely believe the official report. I think there are a lot of lies and cover ups about what happend that day and why but ultimately it was a huge tradergy.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So, to summarise: it was a donkey, or possibly a dolphin, on the grassy knoll that fired the magic bullet that started the Great Fire of London that set in motion the train of events that led to Nostradamus proving beyond doubt that 9/11 was a government conspiracy.

Or something. I think.

The donkey theory is gaining credibility ..

May urged to sack her ‘donkey’ ministers

Theresa May is being urged by cabinet ministers to sack testosterone-fuelled “donkeys”...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/may-urged-to-sack-her-donkey-ministers-lxmkxwksf

 

[Lower West Stander]

Remember when everyone thought Jimmy Savile was a really great guy?

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

eh?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I was going to see if anyone had quoted that one, gas explosion causing a partial collapse is perfectly understandable scientifically. Grenfell not falling, even slightly, is also explained scientifically but building 7 is not only not explained, but NIST gave up trying to and ended up being forced to support the official story.

The truth is that the biggest crime scene ever was dismantled and destroyed as soon as possible, so no steel was tested for thermite or any other incendiary devices. But there is evidence to suggest that thermite was used in the buildings. Science also tells us that it wasn't possible for the fires to be burning to the temperature required to melt steel. The official explanation for the collapse of the towers is a joke, and the problems with the official story mount as you actually investigate it.

I've long since been fascinated by 9/11 because it's the single biggest man caused catastrophe of my life time, there's been nothing on that scale since. I've watched all the videos, read the official report and a few other books and I'm currently reading "The New Pearl Harbour" by David Ray Griffin which doesn't talk to the specifically theories but it talks to the whole story of 9/11 and the evidence to suggest that the official account is lacking in reality. For anyone who hasn't done the research, I'm talking about the re-financing of the insurance policy on the towers to cover them separately against acts of terrorism, I'm talking about the put options purchased in United and American Airlines' stock in the days before 9/11 (which would pay out massively if there was a big drop in their share prices - which there was), I'm talking about the re-wiring work in the South Tower the weekend before 9/11 which caused all CCTV and power to be cut to the top section of the building and I'm talking about all of the communications and warnings that the CIA and other agencies had received prior to 9/11 about the specifics of what was coming.

There's too much incompetence in the official story for it to be believable and there are too many genuine questions and inconsistencies based on eye witness testimony, testimony of the people involved on the day (Rumsfeld, etc) and there are too many coincidences for it to be believable. Some people say, "there are too many people who would have known too much for a cover up to be possible" - well, a lot of people do know their small part in the puzzle which resulted in the attacks.

Personally, based on all the research I've done personally, it's my opinion that the American government knew an attack was coming and stood down the airforce and stood down their usual protocols to allow it to happen as a pre-text for war. I watched Bush in some primary debates and he used language he would later use after the attacks and there are documents drawn up in the year before 9/11 which specifically talk about the need for "a catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbour". Another thing that people don't know is that Saddam Hussein was beginning to sell petrol in the Euro currency, beforehand all petrol sales were in USD which underpins the entire US economy. By changing to Euro, the American economy would have been severely damaged. 9/11 was used to invade Afghanistan and then Iraq (despite their lack of involvement in 9/11, blame the Saudi's and Pakistan) and put a stop to petrol sales in Euro. I believe that nobody knew how many lives would be lost, and that there was genuine remorse about it but they allowed it to happen for the greater good.

But bottom line, 3,000 people died. That is a staggering number of people, including one of our own. So for all the theories and the talk of uncovering the truth, this fact needs to be remembered and considered because ultimately, that's the reality of the day. The worst day.

Hillsbrough's victims had to wait more than 20 years to get the full truth and realistically, 9/11 will take a lot more than that but I believe that in my life time (I'm 29 currently), the truth will come out and it will be what has been claimed all along because the facts speak for themselves, whatever the official account may say.

Firstly, Hillsborough was a cover up of incompetence, not conspiracy or intent. What you are suggesting with 9/11 is planned intent, knowing destruction, a conscious conspiracy.

Secondly, American history should play an important role in your research. No other nation has such a hunger for conspiracy theory, and this comes down to their constitution and effectively their right to bare arms against the government who at any moment could turn against them. These conspiracies are deep seated and embedded, right back to the frontier days, but also linked to an arrogance of 'we are the greatest nation on Earth'.

The arrogance comes into it because of not wanting to believe it was possible for 20 men to infiltrate their country and cause such destruction. The same is true of Pearl Harbour, there was a belief that Japan would never attempt something so brazen against them, and in turn there are those that think that defeat was only possible through conspiracy to allow it to - same principle with 9/11.

The American conspiracy is driven from a belief that ultimately their government is in full control of everything, which stems from that arrogance, and as previously stated at some point will become the enemy of the people. There is an insatiable appetite for it, a massive economy for it. The books, documentaries etc. you have invested your time in - make a lot of money, it is an industry for specialists and engineers who if they are happy to be associated with such theories, quite happily appear and reappear and write their own books etc. etc. There is not much requirement to corroborate the theories, the science can be loose, the conclusions flimsy but convincing, your point about steel a case in point, it doesn't need to melt to lose its structural performance.

You can very easily get lost in it, not through a lack of intelligence, I'm not going down that road, just that it is in its own way, compelling, interesting, exciting and convincing. I loved Don Delillo's 'Libra', fascinating novel weaving factual persons, events into a brilliant narrative, but you have to remember its fiction at the end of it...

 

[Commander]

I cant believe you can sit there, dismiss it so easily and say its not hard. anyway we are arguing for arguments sake here, as I dont believe it was fake, the impact that the plane made at the pentagon was very different to an impact that brought down the towers though and it is questionable, the problem is can you truely believe the official report. I think there are a lot of lies and cover ups about what happend that day and why but ultimately it was a huge tradergy.

On what grounds are you saying it is hard? Because it sounds hard? That's why they went to flying school, to learn how to do it. Surely anyone who could fly a plane could land it on a target that big? I just can't see how it would be that difficult, if you knew what you were doing. It's much bigger than a runway.

And, this is me just speculating, but I'd imagine that to hit a low target like the Pentagon you'd have to basically land on it, rather than fly full speed straight into it, which would mean that the difference in damage between the Pentagon and the WTC makes perfect sense?

As for lots of lies and cover ups, I have no doubt there are some, there always are in a big event like this. But that's very different to America deliberately attacking itself so they could go and start a war that they would have got away with doing anyway.

 

[colinz]

Are you accusing me off pedalling 9/11 is an inside job theory? Because if you are, please learn to read.

Just saying that those who believe in the official conspiracy because of what they saw on the Tele, are the same as those who believe the Towers were brought down and dustified by some exotic weaponry, as a result of analysing what they saw on the Tele.

 

[half time scores]

Remember when everyone thought Jimmy Savile was a really great guy?

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion you're user name is somewhat apt.


Sits back awaiting personal abuse.

 

[MattBackHome]

Two standout posts on this thread so far that have really made me laugh:

Dunno, full of evidence?

and

Well keep your gob shut then

Excellent work everyone.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

After reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion you're user name is somewhat apt.


Sits back awaiting personal abuse.

I don't abuse people that don't ask for it [emoji8]

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[Goldstone1976]

If you watch the documentarys and listen to all the experts on how it all happened and still don't think it was a cover up, you are a complete moron.

I don't abuse people that don't ask for it

 

[boik]

When there's a choice between conspiracy and cock-up and coincidence, it always turns out to be cock-up and coincidence. People just hate to not know, so make up stuff to explain what might not be explainable. c.f. religion, the paranormal etc. Sometimes the correct answer is "I do not know".

 

[NogansRun]

On what grounds are you saying it is hard? Because it sounds hard? That's why they went to flying school, to learn how to do it. Surely anyone who could fly a plane could land it on a target that big? I just can't see how it would be that difficult, if you knew what you were doing. It's much bigger than a runway.

And, this is me just speculating, but I'd imagine that to hit a low target like the Pentagon you'd have to basically land on it, rather than fly full speed straight into it, which would mean that the difference in damage between the Pentagon and the WTC makes perfect sense?

As for lots of lies and cover ups, I have no doubt there are some, there always are in a big event like this. But that's very different to America deliberately attacking itself so they could go and start a war that they would have got away with doing anyway.

Yes that's right, you just have to land on it - by performing several near impossible manoeuvres whilst avoiding all the defences in the most heavily protected airspace in the USA. Still at least we have loads of CCTV evidence that it was actually a plane that hit the Pentagon. Oh wait...

 

[The Clamp]

The world is full of inadequate, young beta males who sink into a hole of comic books, super heroes and action thriller films. Most are happy to remain at the level of collecting toys and discussing Star Wars plots. Others think they have found a way to be special, think they have special insight and knowledge, they believe they have the key that could unlock the secret of the overlords (super-villains) and are certain beyond doubt they have the answers.

Do they take these findings to a higher authority who might be able to help them blow this thing wide open?
No. They make YouTube videos. And they make a lot of money out of sheep who want to feel special.
You know what makes you feel even more special? A proper job and getting laid.

 

[Spiros]

These ongoing conspiracy theories make me laugh. Back in 1980 I had the good fortune to be on a trip to New York that involved going right to the top of the south tower. As a nerdy teenager one of the questions I asked the guide then was 'what would happen if it collapsed? It's so big it would demolish loads of other buildings in Manhattan'. 'No problem' he replied. 'The building has been designed to collapse on itself around an inner core' and he showed me something to that effect in a guidebook. I guess the conspiracy about the towers being demolished must have started more than 20 years before it happened.....

Roll forward to early 2000 and I'm employed by Amex and as part of a project I was working on had just finished documenting continuity plans for Amex Bank, whose headquarters were in 7 WTC. One of the risks we factored in was the fact that the fuel tanks for the emergency power supply were on the roof and in the event of them splitting (e.g. an earthquake) the building would be doused in fuel and become highly likely to catch fire and collapse due to it having a steel construction. Those plans had to be activated in Sep 2001 and relocated the business to Jersey City. The collapse of the south tower was like a large magnitude earthquake as far as 7 WTC was concerned.

Perhaps my project team was part of the conspiracy too and we just didn't know it. Or perhaps I was too and am not letting on. You can believe what you want, but personally I don't believe that Bush, his administration or the US security services are (a) intelligent enough to come up with a plan that complex and (b) bright enough to keep it secret even if they did. When you factor in how stupid the yanks are generally then what we are told happened is actually the most likely scenario anyway