So was 9/11 an inside job or not? (merged)

[Megazone]

It's really the CTs I find bonkers, rather than the actual debate. I don't see why I shouldn't join in
.

How can you find them bonkers when you ask them the same questions in hope of the same answers? This is all role play for you.

 

[Triggaaar]

For the record I've never said that terrorists never flew the planes into the towers, but I still think they had help / were allowed too, and I think the passport being found is complete bollocks

If that's all you thought, there wouldn't be this car crash debate. Are you sure you've not suggested the footage of the planes hitting the towers was faked?

The point I was referencing related to whether Governments would allow or permit attacks on their own populace and the perception that this would never be entertained. Two of these involved this theme (the outcome being a justifiable military response). The Gulf of Tonkin involved a faked incident for a military response.

The Gulf of Tonkin incident was between warships, so nothing to do with allowing an attack on their populace. And as far as I can tell, it didn't even involve allowing an attack on US military, it simply involved provoking North Vietnam and lying about what happened. How many Americans died in that incident exactly?

And how the hell does that compare with 9/11?

 

[GreersElbow]

Why is there no poll?

Government suppression of the truth. #JETFUELCANTSTOPPOLLS

If that's all you thought, there wouldn't be this car crash debate. Are you sure you've not suggested the footage of the planes hitting the towers was faked?

The Gulf of Tonkin incident was between warships, so nothing to do with allowing an attack on their populace. And as far as I can tell, it didn't even involve allowing an attack on US military, it simply involved provoking North Vietnam and lying about what happened. How many Americans died in that incident exactly?

And how the hell does that compare with 9/11?

May I also add, wasn't Tonkin actually a mistake? Rather than a false flag, the US at the time was genuinely convinced Vietnamese patrol boats were attacking them? Not so much a false flag..

 

[Wrong-Direction]

If that's all you thought, there wouldn't be this car crash debate. Are you sure you've not suggested the footage of the planes hitting the towers was faked?

The Gulf of Tonkin incident was between warships, so nothing to do with allowing an attack on their populace. And as far as I can tell, it didn't even involve allowing an attack on US military, it simply involved provoking North Vietnam and lying about what happened. How many Americans died in that incident exactly?

And how the hell does that compare with 9/11?

No, if you look at my second post I said planes definitely hit the buildings

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[GreersElbow]

No, if you look at my second post I said planes definitely hit the buildings

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O/T, but I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on the Las Vegas shooter last year. Do you think he was alone? Do you think he was the shooter in the first place?

 

[Megazone]

O/T, but I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on the Las Vegas shooter last year. Do you think he was alone? Do you think he was the shooter in the first place?

What's your view on this and how have you related it to 9/11?

 

[Wrong-Direction]

O/T, but I am genuinely interested in your thoughts on the Las Vegas shooter last year. Do you think he was alone? Do you think he was the shooter in the first place?

Yes on both, theres no evidence to suspect otherwise, but who knows for sure?

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[scamander]

If that's all you thought, there wouldn't be this car crash debate. Are you sure you've not suggested the footage of the planes hitting the towers was faked?

The Gulf of Tonkin incident was between warships, so nothing to do with allowing an attack on their populace. And as far as I can tell, it didn't even involve allowing an attack on US military, it simply involved provoking North Vietnam and lying about what happened. How many Americans died in that incident exactly?

And how the hell does that compare with 9/11?

That's why I had the Gulf of Tonkin incident as separate to the other two instances, because it was different in that no attack occurred. I clearly stated this in my post.

As for 9/11, the point I was debating was whether a government would allow an attack on its populace to occur (in order to justify a war or military response). I think two of these instances find traction with this, the Gulf of Tonkin (as separate) did not involve an attack on a military vessel but showed that such an attack (in this case falsified) was required to help legitimise a military response.

 

[GreersElbow]

What's your view on this and how have you related it to 9/11?

Government dislikes country music, attacks festival.

I never related it to 9/11 hence O/T.

 

[Megazone]

Government dislikes country music, attacks festival.

I never related it to 9/11 hence O/T.

So you think the Vegas shootings was to do with the governments fear of the power of music?

Interesting indeed. I guess also you think Johnny Nelson was part of the Illuminati due to his triangle shaped nose?

 

[Megazone]

If that's all you thought, there wouldn't be this car crash debate. Are you sure you've not suggested the footage of the planes hitting the towers was faked?

Maybe you're getting a bit mixed up with one of the previous car crash debates you've had on here?

 

[beorhthelm]

If that's all you thought, there wouldn't be this car crash debate. Are you sure you've not suggested the footage of the planes hitting the towers was faked?

The Gulf of Tonkin incident was between warships, so nothing to do with allowing an attack on their populace. And as far as I can tell, it didn't even involve allowing an attack on US military, it simply involved provoking North Vietnam and lying about what happened. How many Americans died in that incident exactly?

And how the hell does that compare with 9/11?

Gulf of Tonkin is dragged up as an example of a conspiracy theory that was proven to be true. an event was manufactured to justify a response. it follows that since one conspiracy theory was true, all conspiracy theory are true. obvs.

 

[GreersElbow]

So you think the Vegas shootings was to do with the governments fear of the power of music?

Interesting indeed. I guess also you think Johnny Nelson was part of the Illuminati due to his triangle shaped nose?

Yes, music has the power to do all sorts, fearful people are easier to control.

 

[Triggaaar]

No, if you look at my second post I said planes definitely hit the buildings

Oh ok, you think the US knew months in advance that terrorists were going to fly planes into the towers, so they thought 'I know, let's place explosives there in case the massive passenger jets don't do enough damage'.

If they knew planes were going to hit the towers, why wouldn't that be enough on it's own to cause public outrage. Look what happened at Grenfell tower, that was just an oven fire. The damage from a passenger jet crashing into each tower would have been massive, even if they hadn't come down. That would have been enough for the US population to support efforts to fight the terrorists. Why bother going to such ridiculous lengths to murder their own citezens, while knowing it would come out eventually if they did? It makes no sense!

 

[scamander]

Gulf of Tonkin is dragged up as an example of a conspiracy theory that was proven to be true. an event was manufactured to justify a response. it follows that since one conspiracy theory was true, all conspiracy theory are true. obvs.

Not at all, each requires careful consideration. My involvement, and that of the Gulf of Tonkin, was merely to comment on how a military invasion or event is easier to sell if you have been attacked first. If you have the political appetite, but fear that the population does not, this might be an option.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

Oh ok, you think the US knew months in advance that terrorists were going to fly planes into the towers, so they thought 'I know, let's place explosives there in case the massive passenger jets don't do enough damage'.

If they knew planes were going to hit the towers, why wouldn't that be enough on it's own to cause public outrage. Look what happened at Grenfell tower, that was just an oven fire. The damage from a passenger jet crashing into each tower would have been massive, even if they hadn't come down. That would have been enough for the US population to support efforts to fight the terrorists. Why bother going to such ridiculous lengths to murder their own citezens, while knowing it would come out eventually if they did? It makes no sense!

The buildings would've had to come down anyway, might as well get it all done on the same day

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[Megazone]

Yes, music has the power to do all sorts, fearful people are easier to control.

What about Johnny Nelson being part of the Illuminati?

Boxing sure does have its powers as well!

 

[Triggaaar]

That's why I had the Gulf of Tonkin incident as separate to the other two instances, because it was different in that no attack occurred. I clearly stated this in my post.

Right, so we can ignore that incident. So you're saying the other two incidents show that they could have arranged 9/11?

Can you explain how any of those are in any way similar to a government deciding to allow the murder of thousands of their own citizens, destruction of their financial trade centre, and the pentagon etc?

You haven't explained the above.

As for 9/11, the point I was debating was whether a government would allow an attack on its populace to occur (in order to justify a war or military response). I think two of these instances find traction with this

So, Operation Northwoods:
What acts of terrorism against the US were actually proposed?

One thing the US would learn from that, is that the truth will out. Imagine being the US president to sign off the murder of thousands of your own civilians in Manhattan. You'd be executed. If you'd already died before the truth was out, your grave would be dug up. Your descendants would have to change their names.

USS Liberty incident:
Israel attacked a US ship by accident. WTF has this got to do with 9/11?

 

[Megazone]

Gulf of Tonkin is dragged up as an example of a conspiracy theory that was proven to be true. an event was manufactured to justify a response. it follows that since one conspiracy theory was true, all conspiracy theory are true. obvs.

Have you already forgotten the child abuse scandal which was ridiculed on here for being 'bonkers'?

 

[Triggaaar]

The buildings would've had to come down anyway, might as well get it all done on the same day

What? So you're suggesting that they killed thousands of people, got many demolition experts to work on the building in secret (people that they still have to keep quiet today), not to give them reason to go to war, but to save time demolishing the buildings at a later date?

Come on WD, you can't believe that?