So perhaps Barnesy was not so bad after all…

[Acker79]

I think Barnes has missed more penalty's for BHA than Ulloa.

Depends on how you look at it. Ulloa has failed to score 100% of his penalties (50% saved, 50% missed). Barnes has scored 75%* of his, and the other 25% were all on target.

Barnes's penalty record is not as good as Lopez's but neither is it as bad as some people seem to suggest.

(*One was scored on the follow up)

 

[tommynockers]

Statistics can be used to show lots of things

He played 22 league games. We won 8 (36%) drew 8 (36%) and lost 6 (27%), giving us 32 points (1.45 per game). Without him our league record is P16 W7 (44%) D3 (19%) L6 (38%)* giving us 24 points (1.6 per game).

With him we score 1.18 goals per game, without him we score 0.81 gpg





In his favour:
We score fewer goals, and lose more frequently without him.
Four of the five games in which we've scored 3 goals this season, came with him in the lone striker role.

Not in his favour:
We win more games without him.


It could be argued that for a large part (12 games) of this season he was playing in an unfamiliar role, that his win rate increased as he grew more familiar and more experienced and better in that lone striker role (one win in his first six, average nsc rating of 5.18, three wins in his last six average NSC rating of 6.98).

So, you see, statistics can show we are better without him, some show we were better with him/would be in a better position had we kept him

So as you say, and as I said before. We win more games without him. That is the only thing that counts in football. The more you win the higher you climb the table.. Simple!!

 

[Acker79]

So as you say, and as I said before. We win more games without him. That is the only thing that counts in football. The more you win the higher you climb the table.. Simple!!

Firstly, what I also point out is that our win rate with him was improving the more he played, which suggests if he'd stayed his win rate would have improved further.

Secondly, is winning all that matters? Not losing also counts. But just as importantly doesn't the entertainment value felt by the fans count (if fans aren't liking the football, they stop coming)? one of the things that makes football entertaining is goals. We score more of them with him, and we averaged enough points with him to be in no danger of relegation - an important note given so many fans seem to dislike the premier league and enjoy playing the championship.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

He would have buried that penalty for a start.

Barnes - Scored: 5; Missed: 3 (63%)

How quickly people forget, the grass is always green isn't it.

 

[Acker79]

Barnes - Scored: 5; Missed: 3 (63%)

How quickly people forget, the grass is always green isn't it.

That's only the league, since we got to the Amex. If you factor in cup penalties, it's 8 scored, 3 missed (73% scored).

His total penalty record with us

16 Taken
11 Scored Directly (69%)
5 Saved
With
1 scored on the follow up (bringing penalties resulting in a goal to 75%)

Not a guarantee he would bury it, but given how the Middlesbrough keeper was nowhere near Ulloa's shot (completely wrong direction) I'd say there's a very good chance Barnes would have scored it. But if I remember rightly, you never rated Barnes, so I suspect you would disagree.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

That's only the league, since we got to the Amex. If you factor in cup penalties, it's 8 scored, 3 missed (73% scored).

His total penalty record with us

16 Taken
11 Scored Directly (69%)
5 Saved
With
1 scored on the follow up (bringing penalties resulting in a goal to 75%)

Not a guarantee he would bury it, but given how the Middlesbrough keeper was nowhere near Ulloa's shot (completely wrong direction) I'd say there's a very good chance Barnes would have scored it. But if I remember rightly, you never rated Barnes, so I suspect you would disagree.

Depends what you mean by rated. If you mean, an average championship striker who could do a job to fill in certain position then, yeh, I rated him. If you mean a striker an aspiring Championship team can rely to to score goals consistently, then no I don't rate him. I guess we'll see now he's at a club that plays him upfront and gives him service.

Basing if Barnes would score based on where the keeper dived isn't very accurate though

 

[Acker79]

Basing if Barnes would score based on where the keeper dived isn't very accurate though

It wasn't just on where the keeper dived. It was a combination of Barnes scoring three quarters of his penalties, getting all of them on target, plus the fact the goal keeper showed he wasn't able to read where Ulloa was putting his, suggesting the keeper isn't particularly good at saving them.

 

[Jbanged]

Still banging on about Barnes

 

[London Irish]

Fair play to Barnsey, never thought he was good enough to have a 5-page thread on him this long after he leaves

 

[B.W.]

I think Barnes has missed more penalty's for BHA than Ulloa. I don't think anyone forced him out of the club, he left becuase he did not want to sign a new contract at the club and chose to move elsewhere.

I have watched Barnes for nealy 4 seasons and to suggest that we are outside the play off's because he left is pretty stupid. He was with us from Aug till Jan and we wern't in the playy off places then.

I watched him play on Saturday and he did not look like scoring. He has only scored one goal for Burnley since his move in Jan (I know he has been kept out of the side by two inform strikers). Lets see how many goals he gets now he will be starting every game due to injury's to Ings & Volks.

Spot and, indeed, on!

 

[B.W.]

We are solid defensively, but missing goals. He scores goals.

6 in 24. Yes, he scores goals, but not enough of them to be considered anything other than an average championship striker.

 

[B.W.]

Firstly, what I also point out is that our win rate with him was improving the more he played, which suggests if he'd stayed his win rate would have improved further. No basis in this extrapolation whatsoever. Too many variables.

Secondly, is winning all that matters? Not losing also counts. But just as importantly doesn't the entertainment value felt by the fans count (if fans aren't liking the football, they stop coming)? one of the things that makes football entertaining is goals. We score more of them with him, and we averaged enough points with him to be in no danger of relegation - an important note given so many fans seem to dislike the premier league and enjoy playing the championship.

6 in 24 is the only important stat for Barnes. If I was being generous, I would say this is average. In truth, it is poor.

 

[Westdene Wonder]

Barnes 208 career games 52 goals , Ulloa. 260 games 102 goals. As I said division one striker, trys hard but not championship quality!

Spot on,he was often in the right place but his goals against chances were low.

 

[B.W.]

That's only the league, since we got to the Amex. If you factor in cup penalties, it's 8 scored, 3 missed (73% scored).

His total penalty record with us

16 Taken
11 Scored Directly (69%)
5 Saved
With
1 scored on the follow up (bringing penalties resulting in a goal to 75%)

Not a guarantee he would bury it, but given how the Middlesbrough keeper was nowhere near Ulloa's shot (completely wrong direction) I'd say there's a very good chance Barnes would have scored it. But if I remember rightly, you never rated Barnes, so I suspect you would disagree.

And the stats you select suggest you're a big Barnes fan. Is that right?

 

[Acker79]

6 in 24 is the only important stat for Barnes. If I was being generous, I would say this is average. In truth, it is poor.

The basis in the extrapolation is logical, mathmatical. If something is improving over a given period, it isn't baseless to suggest it could have continued to improve. 6 in 24 may not be the best, but he's still our joint second highest scorer, and joint highest for assists even though he hasn't played for us for 18 games.

And the stats you select suggest you're a big Barnes fan. Is that right?

The stats you have quoted are not me "selecting" stats. They are not a selection of his penalty stats (which were being discussed) - they are the whole story.

Selecting stats is saying "well, if we include all of them, his penalty taking isn't really a stick to beat him with, not the greatest, but certainly not to be sniffed at, whereas if I remove all those scored penalties in the cup, all those scored penalties from the Withdean era, it can skew the stats and make him look worse, I'll just show them". That is "selecting stats".


I'm a fan of all Brighton players. If I see people selectively showing stats to present them as worse than they are/were I'll contribute to the thread, showing the full stats, so people can see more of the story, or in some cases showing a different selection of stats to show how they can be twisted (depending on how the other person has presented their stats, in this case I assumed gingerbeerman was simply reciting the stat from the penalty thread that covered only league games since we got to the Amex, rather than a deliberate attempt to twist the data, so I simply showed the full picture rather than a selection of it).

Specifically Barnes, I thought he got (and still gets) a lot of unfair criticism. I thought he was better than given credit for, I think he brought a lot to the team we have missed, especially with Crofts out as well. Given our goal scoring record since he left, I still am not sure if the £700k was worth it.

I don't consider myself a Barnes lover, then again, I don't think I've 'loved' a player since John Crumplin/John Robinson, but because I was regularly defending him I have a reputation among those who disliked him of being a Barnes lover. But in this instance, it's more my love of stats and wanting more (accurate) details out there, than specifically any desire to stand up for Barnes.