So, over 700 dead......

[Thunder Bolt]

Ever been to Japan? A model of conformity in a land not exactly beset by religion.

Shintu & Budhism.

 

[alfredmizen]

Everything points to God not existing. Nothing about it makes any rational sense. Why should I hear of God speaking to others whilst I am left in his silence?

It was once an innocent theory that was manipulated and turned into mankinds biggest lie to feed an overwheming desire for his own power.

i think everything (in the limited capacity of the human brain) points to there being some sort of being or creator, how did everything get here ? I don't just mean our universe etc, I mean far away in space , where does space end , does it end, what was here before ? Without some sort of being or creator (I'm not a creationist, I believe Darwin !) the human brain just isn't complex enough to even begin to understand this .

 

[Hastings gull]

Are you daring to suggest that some rich and influential people are aiming to make money off the back of this so called religion ?

hmmm... so it is in their interest to say perhaps that instead of "What a terrible accident" and possibly be culpable in some indirect way, they could say "It is Gods will" and therefore absolve themselves of any blame....

hmmm.... interesting.....

Disclaimer: my opinions are based on mistrust of all religions.... divide and rule my friends.... divide and rule.

I asked friends who had worked for many years in Saudi whether there is just less bother there for the average punter in the street, and thus safety is compromised. They said that, rather than diligently work out what might happen, the locals tend to shrug their shoulders and claim "inshallah" (spelling?) -if god wills it, or some such translation. Would this be true?

 

[maltaseagull]

apparently that is a mistranslation; hilariously, they are only entitled to 72 white grapes

Blimey what a massive con! That's much worse than VW lying about emission tests.

All those suicide bombers..........................

On a serious note though it is a tragedy and the blame rests with the inadequate crowd control of the Saudi Authorities but they will whitewash it and blame the pilgrims. There are deaths quite regularly and nobody seems to have resolved the issue.

2006: 364 pilgrims die in a crush at foot of Jamarat Bridge in Mina

1997: 340 pilgrims are killed when fire fuelled by high winds sweeps through Mina's tent city

1994: 270 pilgrims die in a stampede during the stoning ritual

1990: 1,426 pilgrims, mainly Asian, die in a stampede in an overcrowded tunnel leading to holy sites

1987: 402 people die when security forces break up an anti-US demonstration by Iranian pilgrims

 

[Insel affe]

i think everything (in the limited capacity of the human brain) points to there being some sort of being or creator, how did everything get here ? I don't just mean our universe etc, I mean far away in space , where does space end , does it end, what was here before ? Without some sort of being or creator (I'm not a creationist, I believe Darwin !) the human brain just isn't complex enough to even begin to understand this .

Said the believer.....

How did someone make everything then....

Could be a child was sat in their science class, and a teacher gave that child a project so he created the universe....

Come on, there is no god, we have more chance of the so called gods actually being Aliens who have visited us in the past. If I had to choose between the two options I would select the alien option over god every day.

And that is saying something.

 

[daveinprague]

I asked friends who had worked for many years in Saudi whether there is just less bother there for the average punter in the street, and thus safety is compromised. They said that, rather than diligently work out what might happen, the locals tend to shrug their shoulders and claim "inshallah" (spelling?) -if god wills it, or some such translation. Would this be true?

Pretty much.

 

[Insel affe]

Pretty much.

Would the same be true in say Qatar ?

 

[alfredmizen]

Said the believer.....

How did someone make everything then....

Could be a child was sat in their science class, and a teacher gave that child a project so he created the universe....

Come on, there is no god, we have more chance of the so called gods actually being Aliens who have visited us in the past. If I had to choose between the two options I would select the alien option over god every day.

And that is saying something.

I think you misunderstood my post , I'm not saying there is a god, I'm saying there is/was SOMETHING !! Who do you think made the aliens you mention , or the child sat in their science class ?? That's what I'm trying to get across, everything can't have just appeared , and by everything I mean outer space billions and billions of light years away , what was there before ? It must have been something ,how does space end if it does , it can't be just some brick wall with nothing behind it, what I'm trying to convey is that there are questions we have that are just too complex for the human brain to understand , that's why I laugh when I hear people scathingly dismissing people as 'God botherers ' without any real alternative explanation.

 

[daveinprague]

Would the same be true in say Qatar ?

No idea, Ive never been to Qatar, but in Saudi, 'inshallah' tends to be the answer for everything. It is probably the response to the hundreds of deaths of the migrant workers building the stadia in Qatar. I think a lot of the accidents are down to lazyness on somebodies part somewhere.

 

[Hastings gull]

Would the same be true in say Qatar ?

MY brother is in Jerusalem and says the same about inshallah, I might add. Whether this is the same, assuming you accept what I wrote, of course, in Arab countries such as Dubai, where other influences may be stronger, I don't know.

 

[BadFish]

I think you misunderstood my post , I'm not saying there is a god, I'm saying there is/was SOMETHING !! Who do you thin made the aliens you mention , or the child sat in their science class ?? That's what I'm trying to get across, everything can't have just appeared , and by everything I mean outer space billions and billions of light years away , what was there before ? It must have been something ,vow here does space end if it does , it can't be just some brick wall with nothing behind it, what I'm trying to convey is that there are questions we have that are just too complex for the human brain to understand , that's why I laugh when I hear people scathingly dismissing people as 'God botherers ' without any real alternative explanation.

Whilst i agree with your thinking here. It does beg the question...... Who created the creator? The whole thing is a mind **** because at some point somehow we had to go from nothing to something. Be that the creation of the universe or the creation of the thing that created the universe. I consign myself to never knowing the answer to this as, as you say, this is not within our current realms of understanding (yet??).

 

[KZNSeagull]

I think you misunderstood my post , I'm not saying there is a god, I'm saying there is/was SOMETHING !! Who do you think made the aliens you mention , or the child sat in their science class ?? That's what I'm trying to get across, everything can't have just appeared , and by everything I mean outer space billions and billions of light years away , what was there before ? It must have been something ,how does space end if it does , it can't be just some brick wall with nothing behind it, what I'm trying to convey is that there are questions we have that are just too complex for the human brain to understand , that's why I laugh when I hear people scathingly dismissing people as 'God botherers ' without any real alternative explanation.

It could have just appeared but we do not have the capacity to understand how or why.

Perhaps the new Alien film will give us the answers?!

 

[Insel affe]

I think you misunderstood my post , I'm not saying there is a god, I'm saying there is/was SOMETHING !! Who do you think made the aliens you mention , or the child sat in their science class ?? That's what I'm trying to get across, everything can't have just appeared , and by everything I mean outer space billions and billions of light years away , what was there before ? It must have been something ,how does space end if it does , it can't be just some brick wall with nothing behind it, what I'm trying to convey is that there are questions we have that are just too complex for the human brain to understand , that's why I laugh when I hear people scathingly dismissing people as 'God botherers ' without any real alternative explanation.

This explanation is not good enough then...

According to the standard Big Bang model, the universe was born during a period of inflation that began about 13.7 billion years ago. Like a rapidly expanding balloon, it swelled from a size smaller than an electron to nearly its current size within a tiny fraction of a second.
Initially, the universe was permeated only by energy. Some of this energy congealed into particles, which assembled into light atoms like hydrogen and helium. These atoms clumped first into galaxies, then stars, inside whose fiery furnaces all the other elements were forged.
This is the generally agreed-upon picture of our universe's origins as depicted by scientists. It is a powerful model that explains many of the things scientists see when they look up in the sky, such as the remarkable smoothness of space-time on large scales and the even distribution of galaxies on opposite sides of the universe.

If someone or something created life etc then, who created him it's a never ending story the above makes far more sense, than something or someone scratching their beard in the morning and thinking "you know what I think I will create the universe today"........ Poppycock....

PS: Not having a go at you directly my friend.

 

[goldstone]

I think you misunderstood my post , I'm not saying there is a god, I'm saying there is/was SOMETHING !! Who do you think made the aliens you mention , or the child sat in their science class ?? That's what I'm trying to get across, everything can't have just appeared , and by everything I mean outer space billions and billions of light years away , what was there before ? It must have been something ,how does space end if it does , it can't be just some brick wall with nothing behind it, what I'm trying to convey is that there are questions we have that are just too complex for the human brain to understand , that's why I laugh when I hear people scathingly dismissing people as 'God botherers ' without any real alternative explanation.

None of that helps. If there is a creator, then who made him/her/it? It's absolutely no use believing that "there MUST be a creator 'cos otherwise how did we get here" unless you have an answer to who created the creator.

 

[Insel affe]

No idea, Ive never been to Qatar, but in Saudi, 'inshallah' tends to be the answer for everything. It is probably the response to the hundreds of deaths of the migrant workers building the stadia in Qatar. I think a lot of the accidents are down to lazyness on somebodies part somewhere.

You could see where I was going with that question eh....

Religion can be convenient, sometimes eh.

 

[goldstone]

Wow! Stephen Fry has just gone way up in my estimation. I used to quite admire the guy, then after his "marriage" to the spotty teenager I refused to even watch anything he was on on the tele ... but he has somewhat restored my faith in him as a very clever and very amusing human being.

 

[Bwian]

I think you misunderstood my post , I'm not saying there is a god, I'm saying there is/was SOMETHING !! Who do you think made the aliens you mention , or the child sat in their science class ?? That's what I'm trying to get across, everything can't have just appeared , and by everything I mean outer space billions and billions of light years away , what was there before ? It must have been something ,how does space end if it does , it can't be just some brick wall with nothing behind it, what I'm trying to convey is that there are questions we have that are just too complex for the human brain to understand , that's why I laugh when I hear people scathingly dismissing people as 'God botherers ' without any real alternative explanation.

If 'the creator' created the universe, where did IT originate from? If a 'creator' 'always has been and always will be' then shouldn't the same apply to the universe? You can't have one thing always being there/here and not another just to satisfy 'religious' teachings.

 

[alfredmizen]

If 'the creator' created the universe, where did IT originate from? If a 'creator' 'always has been and always will be' then shouldn't the same apply to the universe? You can't have one thing always being there/here and not another just to satisfy 'religious' teachings.

i agree with you, but there are far too many complex questions to which we'll never know the answer for people to arrogantly dismiss ANY theories of how we got here .

 

[alfredmizen]

Whilst i agree with your thinking here. It does beg the question...... Who created the creator? The whole thing is a mind **** because at some point somehow we had to go from nothing to something. Be that the creation of the universe or the creation of the thing that created the universe. I consign myself to never knowing the answer to this as, as you say, this is not within our current realms of understanding (yet??).

exactly, pretty much my view.

 

[Nibble]

I think one can dismiss theories that cannot be backed up in ANY way whatsoever.