So, George and Tony, do you still think toppling Saddam was a good idea?

[Ferring Marine]

All ISIS, Iraquis, Pakistanis and Islamic loonies/weirdos should be gathered together, put on a leper infested island, with no WATER and be subjected to CLIFF RICHARD'/Craig David/Lighthouse Family greatest hit(s) on a 50 year loop until they give up the will to live.
Worse than watching depressed enders.

 

[Ferring Marine]

George and Tony B'liar are both headcase criminals and consumate liars.
The latter is a smug, sweaty war criminal - the lest said about his lopsided, smiled wife the better
May they rot in Selhurst.

 

[dazzer6666]

I was on a business trip to Saudi Arabia before Saddam was toppled and had many discussions with Saudis who were all very clear that whilst they thought he was a crackpot, his presence kept the wider region stable and removing him would lead to chaos - him staying was very much the lesser of two evils in their view.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Yeah, i suppose so, i mean iv'e lived in this bungalow for nearly 20 years and i still blame the previous owner for not having a gas supply in the kitchen for my gas oven. The 40's and 1960, you mean 56 and 70 years ago.....blimey desperate to blame or what for the troubles TODAY.

Soulman i don't think you've grasped what it's like to actually have a war inside your countries borders... We've been very lucky in England, but imagine after the blitz there actually had been fighting as churchill wanted it, in the streets etc.
These are violent acts that happen to real people, these real (but now ****ed up) people go on to have children and put their fears (racism/PTSD/depression etc) into them. These things take generations to come out.

I dunno about you, but my mum used to call any 'nasty' spider she didn't like a 'german' spider. My grandmother was blown up by a bomb in the war and as a result my family has felt the ripples of that violence. My father at the time was 6, and was late out of school, he blamed himself as a child and has suffered depression throughout his life. He wasn't a fan of the Germans, and still now sometimes i have to stop his racism coming out through me. Imagine growing up in a hate fuelled society because your culture has been wronged.

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

Ah, you're referring to Uganda, Tanzania, South Africa, Rwanda, Pakistan, India, Kenya and Bangladesh - Commonwealth countries all, and not a jot of trouble in any of them. Not forgetting Nigeria itself, of course.

BTW, I'm flattered you've replied to the same post three times

Oh aren't these some of the countries that have human rights issues over the homosexuality laws they inherited from us?

 

[sydney]

What caused the problems with Yemen and Nigeria? It's not as easy as blaming the Iraq war. The whole Middle East has been a powder keg for 100 years.

and the rest.....

in answer to the op , did you forget what saddam did to kuwait.....that was the biggest nail he could ever have supplied for his own coffin....?? Gaddaffi..?? well they've had it in for him since Lockerbie...!!

it is ( muslim miltancy) a seemingly intractable problem which is going to require extreme measures something like pinpointing these hate filled mullahs and taking them out along with everything within a 3 mile radius , we all keep hearing how the vast majority of muslims are peace loving , family orientated people ..........well the muslim population at large needs to de-radicalise their own and/or isolate the lunatics from the main populus......it is their problem and the failure to at least try will result in them all being tarred with the same brush........one thing is for sure any mullah/cleric confirmed to be preaching any form of jihad should be unconditionally deported somewhere nice and hardline like Yemen.....along with their wives and families.....imho of course.

 

[attila]

L

I agree with your sentiments regarding Bush n Blair. But I'm sure the Muslim extremist issue was always going to raise its ugly head at sometime.
I was, I think I'm permitted to say informed about that concern more than two decades ago by a foreign military associate. At that time Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden were unknown to me. But they were already under the attention of our friends 'over the pond'. I personally don't believe it's reached its hiatus yet.
And again, in my view and only that, our best tactics would be to 'best friend' Muslims and encourage them to expel extremists and award them pariah status. They are best dealt with from within.

More than THREE decades ago Bin Laden and the forerunners of AlQaeda, the 'brave Mujahedin freedom fighters of Afghanistan' (thus described by the BBC reporters embedded with them in the hills above Kabul from where they made raids into the city bombing schools and throwing acid in women's faces) were being FINANCED by the US, the UK and the West in general.....

 

[The Spanish]

More than THREE decades ago Bin Laden and the forerunners of AlQaeda, the 'brave Mujahedin freedom fighters of Afghanistan' (thus described by the BBC reporters embedded with them in the hills above Kabul from where they made raids into the city bombing schools and throwing acid in women's faces) were being FINANCED by the US, the UK and the West in general.....

They would have done it anyway though. Of course it is unacceptable for us to in anyway subsidise their behaviour or actions, but they do or did not exist purely because they were clients of the west. Far from it. They are now primarily funded by other states, based on ideological rather than Cold War geopolitical reasons. time to direct questions at them. But then that leads us onto more dangerous political ground.

 

[attila]

They would have done it anyway though. Of course it is unacceptable for us to in anyway subsidise their behaviour or actions, but they do or did not exist purely because they were clients of the west. Far from it. They are now primarily funded by other states, based on ideological rather than Cold War geopolitical reasons. time to direct questions at them. But then that leads us onto more dangerous political ground.

If they hadn't been funded by the West the Afghan Army would have defeated them and the whole poison would have been crushed in its infancy. Charlton beckons

 

[Soulman]

Soulman i don't think you've grasped what it's like to actually have a war inside your countries borders... We've been very lucky in England, but imagine after the blitz there actually had been fighting as churchill wanted it, in the streets etc.
These are violent acts that happen to real people, these real (but now ****ed up) people go on to have children and put their fears (racism/PTSD/depression etc) into them. These things take generations to come out.

I dunno about you, but my mum used to call any 'nasty' spider she didn't like a 'german' spider. My grandmother was blown up by a bomb in the war and as a result my family has felt the ripples of that violence. My father at the time was 6, and was late out of school, he blamed himself as a child and has suffered depression throughout his life. He wasn't a fan of the Germans, and still now sometimes i have to stop his racism coming out through me. Imagine growing up in a hate fuelled society because your culture has been wronged.

My grandad died on the Lancastria at Dunkirk in 1940, my Mum was 4 at the time and expected him home for many Christmas's. My uncle was in a German prison camp and was very nervous for his whole life. My Dad was stabbed in Malaya aged 18 doing his national service. I don't recall the last two going around and taking hostages etc because they thought their "culture had been wronged".
So many excuses by people like you, which is why the problems are not dealt with.
Thankfully you have "grasped what it is like", perhaps you have lived inside these "countries borders".

 

[beorhthelm]

More than THREE decades ago Bin Laden and the forerunners of AlQaeda, the 'brave Mujahedin freedom fighters of Afghanistan' (thus described by the BBC reporters embedded with them in the hills above Kabul from where they made raids into the city bombing schools and throwing acid in women's faces) were being FINANCED by the US, the UK and the West in general.....

they even feature in a Bond film, assisting our hero. however, Mujahedin are not Al Qaeda, though some of the members and groups crossed over. the west funding is overplayed, sure they has US backing, but were largly funded by arabs - hence Osama's involvment, thats what he was there for. i suspect if US hadnt given support the conflict would have just carried on until the Soviet break up. the beginning of the "poison" starts when Saudi refused to allow Osama to bring his brigade of troops back to defend against Saddam, which he took badly. so if only we hadnt intervened against the invasion of Kuwait, we'd have avoided alot of bother. who says we shouldnt have intervened in 1991?

 

[Guerrero]

Of course it was a good idea.

Next question.

 

[The Upper Library]

At the time I thought it was at best a simplistic view and at worst a calculated move for ulterior gains . Nothing that has followed has altered my view. So George and Tony probably do think it was a good idea. Whether it was a good decision or not......

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

My grandad died on the Lancastria at Dunkirk in 1940, my Mum was 4 at the time and expected him home for many Christmas's. My uncle was in a German prison camp and was very nervous for his whole life. My Dad was stabbed in Malaya aged 18 doing his national service. I don't recall the last two going around and taking hostages etc because they thought their "culture had been wronged".
So many excuses by people like you, which is why the problems are not dealt with.
Thankfully you have "grasped what it is like", perhaps you have lived inside these "countries borders".

So you must see that your attitude has been shaped by these events? Is this the reason that you do your morally unambiguous posts, (one side is evil and another good)?
I'm sorry to make such a personal statement, and i may be off base here. Apologies if so.

This following statement is not 'point scoring' please accept it at face value - my original comment about countries borders stands, it is about the ripples of violence, both of your relatives incidents happened abroad and both were men doing their 'duty' in campaigns where we were 'victorious' . Even so, these events almost certainly will have effected your families attitudes and these will have been brought out in a lesser or greater extent through you. Imagine if a hostile foreign power had been on our streets, committing violence against great swathes of the people.

Unfortunately you have misinterpreted analysis for excuses, i do not excuse them, we are all responsible for our own actions. These terrorists were scum, wouldn't it be nice to know how they got radicalised and prevent this from happening in the future?

Warmongering talk, over simplification of events, not understanding why you have opinions (or 'buttons') and ignorance of history are all in part responsible for this mess and in my opinion is why 'the problems are not dealt with'. By the way, if in charge, how would you deal with these problems?

 

[Chicken Run]

Your intention, I recall, was to make Iraq a better place for Iraquis. Yup, they're all ecstatically happy now that half their country has been taken over by extremists. And the rest of the world's population is equally ecstatic about the chaos that ISIS has caused.

And as if we hadn't learned a lesson about better the devil you know, off we go to assist with overthrowing Gadaffi. Another important step in creating lasting peace in the Middle East? What has followed Muammar? Chaos and virtual anarchy in Libya.

A big WELL DONE all round. Here's another fine mess you've gotten us into, as Laurel and Hardy would have said.

When will we ever learn to stop interfering in the internal matters of other countries and trying to impose western democracy on those who don't want it.

Rant over .... for the moment.

I agree with the above!

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I don't recall the last two going around and taking hostages etc because they thought their "culture had been wronged".

Sorry for the double reply, i don't think i made it clear that our culture wasn't wronged. So your point is a little odd, it appears you're deliberately misunderstanding what i am saying.

 

[The Upper Library]

Of course it was a good idea.

Next question.

Would be interested to know why you think so?